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" Big mouth strikes again, and I have no right to <br>take my place in the human race"
"Now I know how Joan of Arc felt"
Quote: from madman marz on 1:56 pm on May 9, 2007[br] " Big mouth strikes again, and I have no right to  <br>take my place in the human race"
"Now I know how Joan of Arc felt"
All right, i’ll shut up ;)
MM,
I certainly don’t act in this way…Though I do prefer to express my own opinions, rather than have somebody express them for me. I do think your thread about secretly wishing for a horse to fall was in particular bad taste, especially considering the many fatalities to horse and jockey over the years.
I do accept that it would be a boring forum if we did all agree and everything was uniformed, but you also have to accept that if you post something, it will also be open criticism.
JohnJ<br>
Quote: from johnjdonoghue on 3:48 pm on May 9, 2007[br]MM,
I certainly don’t act in this way…Though I do prefer to express my own opinions, rather than have somebody express them for me. I do think your thread about secretly wishing for a horse to fall was in particular bad taste, especially considering the many fatalities to horse and jockey over the years.
I do accept that it would be a boring forum if we did all agree and everything was uniformed, but you also have to accept that if you post something, it will also be open criticism.
JohnJ<br>
Fair enough JJ,<br>As for that thread that particulary upset you, of course nobody likes to see horses falling, but there was an irony to the thread, which when put into a rare situation where big money beckons "would you secretly hope the horse in front falls ??. Actually JJ somebody actually said they quiet enjoyed that post.<br>I am very much opened to criticism JJ, I suppose if I am guilty of one thing, is I am fairly prolific in my posting, people probably think this guy has too much to say for himself. The nature of my Job means I have a lot of spare time on my hands (no I am not the night watchman at the local graveyard) so I spend my spare time sprawled on the couch, with the computer tuned to the net, usually TRF as you might of guessed, with the TV tuned to ATR/RUK. So to stave off boredom I am not afraid to start a new topic or 2 on TRF. Whether I am spouting drivel thats entirely up to the individual, most of my topics usually get a good response of course not always in agreement of course, so I have took my fair share of criticism, and I would reply in kind to defend my point of view, (which is what forums are all about of course). Just that JJ, the few times you have posted on threads I started, was not to reply to the topic in discussion but to slate the thread because you found it of no interest to you, as I have said before, if a topic doesn’t interest me I wont reply to it, everyone has subjects on racing they like, be it positive or negative, I have been accused of been too negative in my point of views, its the negativity in racing we need to highlight, because the positives speak for themselves do they not ? JJ.<br>Of course I know I didn’t make myself universally poular among the TRF posters with my criticism of Kieran Fallon, I think the word genius is used all too frequently where Jockeys and trainers are concerned, hence the Mecca like hero worshipping of Fallon, as we all know the real heros are the horses.
Gee I nearly wrote a book there, bye.
Patrick.
its the negativity in racing we need to highlight, because the positives speak for themselves do they not ? JJ.
I wish that were the case Madman. Racing is one of the worst sports for promoting itself. Which is a shame because people who love it, like ourselves, know differently.
Stuff such as Whip rules, animal creutly, corruption etc are normally the only time racing gets any back page coverage other than when an above average handicapper wins the aintree funfare… You ask the average man in the street who won the guineas at the weekend and they wouldn;t have a clue… They probably wouldn’t even know what the guineas was..
<br>Edited to say: By the way, i’m not having a pop at you this time! :)
(Edited by Aragorn at 10:07 am on May 11, 2007)
I agree with you Aragorn to the layman in the street, racings image is getting a slating espiecially in the last few years since the introduction of the exchanges. No I am not going to get into a spat over the rights and wrongs of the exchanges, as I have used them myself.
But Aragorn as TRF is usually only used and viewed by us racing enthusiasts, not by the general public at large, so I see no harm in highlighting the negatives here. While racing will always have a level of corruption in it, goes hand in hand where gambling is concerned. If we can help and cut it down by voicing our outrage if you like, and the HRA continue hunt down the cheats, it will be all the better in the long run. ATR is a great medium for highlighting the injustices done to punters, witness racing enthusiasts recent outrage over the Mia’s Boy and Shavansky episodes to name just two.
But Aragorn as TRF is usually only used and viewed by us racing enthusiasts
I agree to an extent but I only got into racing about three years ago and one of the reasons i’m still so interested is because of the sometimes excellent debate on this forum. Particularly with regards to horse/trainer/stat analysis, information passed on by members with their own horses and the various people from the trade who provide an often more frank insight into racing than you’ll get just reading the trade press.
I think there is a tendency to focus on the negative aspects of the sport rather than concentrating on enjoying great animals (Kauto Star, Finsceal Beo) and also trying to become a better punter. The latter should stimulate debate for ever cos despite knowing a lot moe than I used to, i’m not sure its helping!!!!
Fully deserved 6 day ban for Jimmy Fortune today for a disgraceful ride on Great as Gold for frequency and excessive force with the whip. The game and genuine old boy didn’t deserve that sort of ride.<br>At least the stewards picked it up and gave appropriate punishment, unfortunately when RUK reported it they concentrated on the fact that he may possibly miss a good ride in the Derby, which he deserves to do.<br>He’s also appealing but I hope the suspension stands.
Hear, hear. I counted fifteen forceful blows with the whip in the straight, both right-handed and left-handed. He deserved everything he got from the stewards.
Matt Chapman would describe that as an excellent ride, in his words Fortune "threw the kitchen sink at him".
I’m told that is what the punters want to see and is one of the reasons why McCoy is so loved in the betting shops.
In fairness to A.P. things have changed and he does seem to realise more quickly that a horse has given its all these days.
Colin
I would like to see horses lose races where a jockey is deemed to have used the whip excessively.
Also the jockey ban should be for days where a race is run which is AT LEAST of the class/grade of the race where the indiscretion occurred.
So if the excessive whip use occurred in a Gr2 race and this merits a 4 day ban, then the 4 days should be on days when either a Gr1 or Gr2 race is being run, rather than just whatever days the ban falls on.
Quote: from davidbrady on 9:40 am on May 25, 2007[br]I would like to see horses lose races where a jockey is deemed to have used the whip excessively.
Don’t like the sound of that, faceless people deeming results of races, not to mention winners would be treated differently to horses further down the field which can’t be right.<br>Suspension is sufficient penalty for whip offences imo.
It strikes me that I have been critical of Jimmy Fortune on this thread. "Even-handed" being my (hyphenated) middle name I am duty bound to redress the balance by mentioning his ride on Novikov at Newmarket yesterday. Anyone who had seen his rides on Great As Gold and Mount Pleasure might have thought they were looking at a different jockey. By coincidence, the horse now qualifies for a handicap mark. The Racing Post for some reason thinks "he will do infinitely better now he is handicapped and when he steps up in trip."
The Irish long seem to have taken a more lenient view of misuse of the stick.<br>Witness the performance of Murtagh aboard Notnowcato today, where he was found guilty of excessive use and "severely cautioned". That’ll teach him then!<br>His misuse arguably was the diffrence between winning and losing a Group 1. IMO, I wouldn’t support disqualification, but a "holiday" would be well merited and would have been the penalty in the UK.
I think the whip rules are about right .. and NO to seeing a horse getting brayed by a jockey to get into the frame, not me, I don’t like that. You really shouldn’t generalise MM, it’s not good.
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