April 3, 2003 at 08:48 #1144
This is a letter I wrote to the RP recently. It was sparked off by a s**t
e article by Paul Haigh – as usual nothing much to write about. Given its critical nature I am not surprised that it didnt get published. Other people have indicated problems with proofing to or obtaining proofing data from the RP. I think the RP is hypocritical in its approach and should protect punters more – What do you think?
Reference: Paul Haigh article "punting euphoria" 24/03/03
Normally I can bypass your rambling column with ease but your article on ‘punting euphoria’ grabbed my interest. I was interested because I am a professional punter and make money from tipping. I do not have any particular issue with your assessment of tipsters and agree that there are a number of charlatans and con-men operating scams right now. Racing, as with any industry, has its fair share of gullible participants and people ready to exploit that gullibility.
What I do take issue with is your placement of the Racing Post on a pedestal with a plaque that reads "punters champion". Lets get this straight. The RP is a commercial entity not a charity. If the RP didn’t generate revenue and profit it wouldn’t exist in its current form. And how is some of that income generated? Well call me Paul Haigh’s Auntie if it isn’t advertising revenue from the much maligned tipsters themselves!
I applied to advertise in the RP 3 years ago and I received a very reassuring list of rules and regulations relating to proofing and advertising. The rules required a satisfactory period of proofing, demonstration of a competent level of tipping and a level stake profit. Good so far. The rules went further and stated "advertisements should be precise and factual" and continued, " they should not be written in a manner to mislead the public". On the very day your article was published one tipster advert advised their "strongest info ever, spy says its a dead cert". Its curious that this is the very language that you advised us to be wary of and your own publication is promoting it! I regularly see adverts from tipsters that I could prove are not genuine, professional services and certainly do not demonstrate competence or profit from their <br>tips.
So let us take a look at your own ‘advert’ for the RP tipsters. For a start you advise they cost only Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£1.15 a day, which is odd as I thought Saturday’s RP is Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£1.35, which is a bit misleading. So that hikes the cost to around Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£300 a year, which sounds a bit dearer than "only Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£1.15 a day". Funny that you should resort to the kind of sales language that is used on those TV adverts between attheraces segments that you detest so much. Lets look at the pro-tipsters led by the "estimable Nick Fox". Nick Fox did indeed win the recent naps contest, however even Nick would look back on his long term record since joining the RP and admit that he hasn’t always been as profitable. When you add in the "aggregate wisdom" of the other RP tipsters then suddenly it appears you have picked on the most profitable element of your service and not mentioned the <br>least profitable! And let us not forget the name change from Betting Bureau to Trading Bureau, surely its only the dodgy operators that rename their service!
Don’t get me wrong. I have a huge amount of respect for Nick and the other RP tipsters and the racing industry would be the poorer without the RP. However lets not confuse your current racing tabloid monopoly with any moral high ground. And before you criticise a section of the racing industry, please bear in mind that it looks like hypocrisy when it is an entity that your own publication financially benefits from and explicitly promotes!
TTT racingApril 3, 2003 at 08:50 #46677
I have had some interesting feedback on another forum with this article so I thought I would try it here!!April 3, 2003 at 10:13 #46679MatronParticipant
- Total Posts 5826
Nice letter to them.
Be interesting to see of how they respond to your comments.
I suppose they are a "commercial organization" at the end of they day and are driven by profit motifs.
Regards – Matron<br>:cool:April 4, 2003 at 09:28 #46680
I remember when Nick Fox joined the RP .. he was absolutely terrible, worse than me !!! But like you say you would never have guessed that he was hopeless from the column or any other indicator in the paper. Unless a Tipster, states a starting bank and then advises within that bank, he’s normally a waste of space. To have an opened ended bank on the promise that things will come good one day is pointless. Another waste of time is Topspeed, check his strike rate for the last flat season, I think his strike rate is around 12%, that’s only 3% above the average for all runners.
But in answer to your point, which is about standards I would say two things.
If people are daft enough to subscribe to tipping services blind and end up getting screwed then more fool them, the RP is making money like any other business. So your point is valid and they shouldn’t tout themselves about as being something else.
If anyone wants to subscribe to a Tipster then they should demand a ‘Free Trial’ for at least a month and a record of past achievements for the last two years. If they can’t get both of these then they shouldn’t bother in my opinion.<br>April 5, 2003 at 10:09 #46682
I totally agree with your point relating to tipsters providing a long term joined up set of results that have been proofed.
I have to disagree with you free period comment though based upon my own experiences, for three reasons:
1) Tipping is a significant source of income and I dont see why I should give a months income away for nought. You wouldnt go to work for a month for no pay just for your employer to determine if you were worth keeping on!
2) A month isnt long enough to see whether a service is going to be profitable in the long run – so how much do you actually learn?
3) When I first started tipping I gave away free trials and even when the free trial was hugely profitable punters didnt resubscribe – in other words I got more time wasters and lurkers taking up free trials than genuine people.
I believe that the only way for people to get confidence is to see independent genuine publised results from a range of tipsters and they can then follow the best based upon the truth.
These Forums are great for demonstrating real talent – and I am very impressed with the huge ability that some of the people are showing month after month – well done all :cool:
However these forums are littered with ‘members’ who dont contribute and just lurk – these are the people who would take up my and other tipsters free trials – and I for one will not give them the time of day any more!April 5, 2003 at 18:44 #46683
You’ve made some very interesting points there and it’s always good to hear other people’s opinions and experiences. Personally, I have never subscribed to a Tipping service, so I have no experience of them. I used to hold Tipsters in a very low regard until I started using the net and speaking to other Punters who do use services to great effect.
I can’t disagree with the points you have made because I’d be speaking out of ignorance but what I will ask is; where do you proof your tips ??April 6, 2003 at 04:11 #46684
I originally proofed to the RP but stopped that very quickly (there is a good reason but it is litigious so I wont) – then Smartproof before it folded – then Odds On – then short bursts with minor publications – then a solicitor – this year a solicitor & xxxxxxxx – I may also proof to the forums (but not for definite).<br>
(Edited by tttracing at 6:21 pm on April 6, 2003)April 6, 2003 at 09:03 #46685DungheapMember
- Total Posts 113
Hi ttt<br>Be interesting to know why you can not proof to the racing post, that should be a thing you could air without litigation.April 6, 2003 at 13:57 #46686JARMember
- Total Posts 188
I agree with your views about tipping. However if you want tips, Racing and Football Outlook provides tips as good as anyones for only Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£1.10 per week.<br>Combine this with free tips available on the internet, from say the Gummy website and I really cannot see why anyone should pay good money for tips unless they can prove they are better than tips given by Outlook and Gummy.<br>On one point I do not agree with you. There are many people forced by Job Center organisations to work for more than a month for no pay just for an employer to determine if you are worth keeping on.<br>This is a system of abuse that exist in this so called free country perpetrated on the weaker members of society, including those with disabilities unlikely to be offered a job. I know at least one employer who took on a disabled person for 12 weeks for no pay and then did not keep them on – no reason was given. That disabled person had to work for no pay under threat of losing NI entitlement. Employers and Job Centres in this country are guilty of abuse of the human rights of the disabled.<br>:( Sorry to go on a bit this is a personal gripe of mine:(April 6, 2003 at 17:24 #46687
…sieves and collanders ;)April 7, 2003 at 11:07 #46688
There used to be a Tipster called ‘Manny’ that used to proof on here I don’t know what happened to him though ?? He was pretty good …
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