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There’s only one winner of this years Arkle and some of us are sitting pretty…Min showed today he’s improving leaps and bounds.’Altior’ would beat him in a Champion hurdle but not an Arkle.
I hope Nicky heeds your advice, Gord. I’ve a double placed in March: 8s Altior for CH with Thistlecrack at 10s for GC :(
I hope Nicky heeds your advice, Gord. I’ve a double placed in March: 8s Altior for CH with Thistlecrack at 10s for GC
Oh dear Joe,had anyone else made the above comments you would think ‘we’ll see’…When I say it you know you’re in trouble…sorry pal.
Champion Hurdle I backed him for, Gord – not Arkle. I still can’t believe they’re ignoring the race given the prize money and lack of competition – when Yanworth’s a 5/1 chance, what price would Altior be?
Champion Hurdle I backed him for, Gord – not Arkle. I still can’t believe they’re ignoring the race given the prize money and lack of competition – when Yanworth’s a 5/1 chance, what price would Altior be?
I would make Altior the 5/2fav for the Champion hurdle Joe,’Faugheen’ 7/2 and 5/1 ‘Yanworth’.My problem with ‘Altior’ jumping fences is he has the engine to destroy horses between obstacles and up the hill but the likes of Min will beat him jumping fences everyday as he is a far natural Chaser,’Altior’ will lose the Arkle due to his jumping and I wouldn’t bet Nicky finds this out before Cheltenham so dont throw your wagers away just yet pal.
So…Altior vs Min Round 2?
Bit like Kauto Star vs Denman Round 3. Imperial Commander was the fly in the ointment that day.
A fly in the ointment this time? Buveur D’Air? I’m only just getting round to see what a freak of a horse this is!
Whether he’s good enough to beat Altior, I don’t know. He’s technically been beaten twice by Altior – he finished 3L ahead of him in a bumper but he was getting 10lbs. Then of course in the Supreme as well. But I just can’t help but be impressed with his jumping efforts so far. His debut vs Wait For Me was blistering – Wait For Me is a very good horse, and we’ll see that in the Coral Cup. He absolutely killed him that day.
The next start at Huntingdon was a non-event, but still, did it very nicely. He was plum last for a while during the Supreme, and I think he just got a little held up behind Supasundae going round the bend. Don’t think it affected the placings, but he would have been closer to Min. A more positive ride might have yielded a much better result however.
The Grade 1 novice hurdle from Aintree is working out very nicely. He (and Petit Mouchoir) killed Limini, and she of course was getting an allowance. Look 3 out – they’re alongside each other. Then look at the finish. I was watching RUK the other day and listened to what Ruby had to say about Limini after she won the Mares’ Novices. If Buveur D’Air and Petit Mouchoir can do that, giving 7lbs to her, they are serious horses.
As for his chase debut. Cloudy Dream is a very good horse and he should have won the Scottish Champion Hurdle. He’d had 2 previous chase starts (and wins) and is a very capable animal. But Buveur D’Air just killed him. He forged clear in the final furlong, just like vs Wait For Me, at Huntingdon and vs Limini. His turn of foot is insanely good. What’s even more impressive is that he was coming off an 8-month absence, and it was his chase debut. He was getting 8lbs that day, but watch the race again and tell me that it made a difference to the result.
Of course it all depends whether he can reverse form with Min and particularly Altior. Altior is a flat-bred horse, by High Chaparral, so it stands to reason he’d be more forward. Likewise Min, by Walk In The Park. Altior is of course also a year older. So there’s a decent possibility here as Buveur D’Air is NH-bred. A certain Sprinter Sacre (also FR-bred) was beaten 5 1/2L by Al Ferof in the Supreme, and 12 months later beat him by 32L in the Arkle. Cue Card finished 1L behind SS in the Supreme, then got routed in the Arkle. So it’s definitely possible. And the Supreme-Arkle double is very difficult to pull off. If you’re a freak like Douvan, it’s possible. But Al Ferof, Champagne Fever, Vautour – very good horses – all couldn’t pull the double off. Vautour wasn’t even considered quick enough to run in the Arkle.
Then of course you have to take in the likely scenario that he’ll have had less chase experience than both Min and Altior by the time the Arkle comes around. You could argue Altior’s been a bit dodgy. Don’t really know what Min’s been beating.
THEN you have to wonder whether he’ll go for the JLT – but after Bleu et Rouge today, and the fact that he was entered in the Wayward Lad in addition to Altior, as well as his ridiculous turn of foot, I see him more of a 2-miler.
Interestingly enough, for his chase debut Buveur D’Air received a RPR identical to Min for his Grade 1 win the other day. And Altior’s just running in egg and spoon races.
Ignore Buveur D’Air at your absolute peril. Whether he runs in the Arkle or JLT, who knows, but I think he’ll turn up here.
Really not seeing any reason why Min beats Altior or why it’s even considered.
More chance of cue Card beating TC and that won’t happen.
People judging this like a rematch as if they are fairly level talent wise.
Shouldn’t even be in the same breathe if you ask me. This whole round 2 thing makes people think it could go either way and then they see the prices and think MIN is great value. It’s Not!
Altior is totally different league to Min.
buveur Dair would of beaten Min of it had been given a better ride.
I don’t buy this whole min was injured bollocks. You don’t run 2nd in a supreme if you’re injuredReally not seeing any reason why Min beats Altior or why it’s even considered.
More chance of cue Card beating TC and that won’t happen.
People judging this like a rematch as if they are fairly level talent wise.
Shouldn’t even be in the same breathe if you ask me. This whole round 2 thing makes people think it could go either way and then they see the prices and think MIN is great value. It’s Not!
Altior is totally different league to Min.
buveur Dair would of beaten Min of it had been given a better ride.
I don’t buy this whole min was injured bollocks. You don’t run 2nd in a supreme if you’re injuredI don’t buy the injury idea either. Unless you actually know for sure it makes sense to assume that if you are injured you pull up.
The only chance Min has got is to somehow force jumping errors out of Altior but this is Walsh, not Johnson, he isn’t going to go twenty lengths clear.
If Altior is anywhere near he will just sweep past Min as he did last year.
Already looking forward to him taking down Douvan next season.
If Douvan is still racing at 2 miles beyond this season I will eat another of my proverbial hats.
As to Altior, I continue my Champion Hurdle lament…5s Yanworth, 8s Petit Mouchoir…what price would Altior be, 2/1, 7/4, shorter?
If Douvan is still racing at 2 miles beyond this season I will eat another of my proverbial hats.
As to Altior, I continue my Champion Hurdle lament…5s Yanworth, 8s Petit Mouchoir…what price would Altior be, 2/1, 7/4, shorter?
I feel your sorrow Joe, backed Altior for the Champion Hurdle soon after winning the Supreme. If he were mine, I’d keep him to novices to gain experience – until the Festival… Then, one run in the Champion – before reverting to fences. Would you rather win the Champion or Arkle? No brainer.
However, similar to Thistlecrack – think it was his chasing skills at home that persuaded them to go the chase route. We could easily have two 180+ novice chasers this season.
Answer to your question: Had Altior remained hurdling he’d have been odds-on for the Champion by now.
Value Is EverythingI could see the point with Thistlecrack – the Blue Riband, the Gold Cup. The QM’s a fine race but has nothing like the historic appeal and landmark status of the Gold Cup, or even the Champion Hurdle in my view.
Champion Hurdles V Arkle/2018 QM
Prestige – no contest
Prize money – no contest
Possible dual/triple Champion Hurdler to be called in the same breath as legends
Chance of injury arguably greater over fencesWhat on earth were they thinking about? It really does defy all logic.
Only the owner could give you a definitive answer. I assume she might feel chasing is more important than hurdling. If so, I would agree. Many of the Champion Hurdlers didn’t make it as chasers or didn’t even try. If you win one Champion Hurdle you might well try and win another and a chasing career slips further and further away.
I don’t mind what distance Douvan is racing over just as long as we actually get to see him tested. There is nobody better than Mullins at finding the easiest opportunity for the least effort. What he is doing at the moment generates about as much excitement as a schooling session. Thank goodness they didn’t have so many of these penalty kicks in Arkle’s day.
Altior, imo, is total, total class. The stable confidence behind him for last year’s Supreme was rock solid. He was the SB Festival banker. It’s the same this year re the Arkle. As NdB said post-race, when invited to compare him to Min, ‘We’ve been here before’. This was only further confirmed by Noel Fehily’s eulogising over his pre-race gallop and the ‘near 10/10’ rating from Hendo. He is the Heir Apparent to Sprinter.
Why’s he chasing when he could be winning the CH? Stilvi’s right to say that winning one means you tend to get locked in to going down that route again, thereby deferring the when-to-go chasing decision. You don’t even have to win one to get into that position. Look at TNO, or – closer to home – Oscar Whisky. In the back of NJH’s mind too will have been ‘Faugheen The Machine’ (perhaps the one horse he feared in the CH?) as well as juggling the SB pack: Charli Parcs is surely on the Binny route?
NJH has always loved his 2-mile chasers – and which NH purist doesn’t? They are, quite simply, the epitome of jumps racing at its best, and the CC (for me) has far more electric memories than the slog-fest that is so often the GC. So I think that, in sending Altior chasing, NJH is giving NH fans the treat they deserve. If it couldn’t be Sprinter v Douvan in March 2017, then hopefully it’ll be Altior v Douvan in 2018.
But, by then, I think, WPM will have charted a path that sees Douvan attempt to surpass Flyingbolt … Supreme, CC and … GC …
So…Altior vs Min Round 2?
Bit like Kauto Star vs Denman Round 3. Imperial Commander was the fly in the ointment that day.
A fly in the ointment this time? Buveur D’Air? I’m only just getting round to see what a freak of a horse this is!
Whether he’s good enough to beat Altior, I don’t know. He’s technically been beaten twice by Altior – he finished 3L ahead of him in a bumper but he was getting 10lbs. Then of course in the Supreme as well. But I just can’t help but be impressed with his jumping efforts so far. His debut vs Wait For Me was blistering – Wait For Me is a very good horse, and we’ll see that in the Coral Cup. He absolutely killed him that day.
The next start at Huntingdon was a non-event, but still, did it very nicely. He was plum last for a while during the Supreme, and I think he just got a little held up behind Supasundae going round the bend. Don’t think it affected the placings, but he would have been closer to Min. A more positive ride might have yielded a much better result however.
The Grade 1 novice hurdle from Aintree is working out very nicely. He (and Petit Mouchoir) killed Limini, and she of course was getting an allowance. Look 3 out – they’re alongside each other. Then look at the finish. I was watching RUK the other day and listened to what Ruby had to say about Limini after she won the Mares’ Novices. If Buveur D’Air and Petit Mouchoir can do that, giving 7lbs to her, they are serious horses.
As for his chase debut. Cloudy Dream is a very good horse and he should have won the Scottish Champion Hurdle. He’d had 2 previous chase starts (and wins) and is a very capable animal. But Buveur D’Air just killed him. He forged clear in the final furlong, just like vs Wait For Me, at Huntingdon and vs Limini. His turn of foot is insanely good. What’s even more impressive is that he was coming off an 8-month absence, and it was his chase debut. He was getting 8lbs that day, but watch the race again and tell me that it made a difference to the result.
Of course it all depends whether he can reverse form with Min and particularly Altior. Altior is a flat-bred horse, by High Chaparral, so it stands to reason he’d be more forward. Likewise Min, by Walk In The Park. Altior is of course also a year older. So there’s a decent possibility here as Buveur D’Air is NH-bred. A certain Sprinter Sacre (also FR-bred) was beaten 5 1/2L by Al Ferof in the Supreme, and 12 months later beat him by 32L in the Arkle. Cue Card finished 1L behind SS in the Supreme, then got routed in the Arkle. So it’s definitely possible. And the Supreme-Arkle double is very difficult to pull off. If you’re a freak like Douvan, it’s possible. But Al Ferof, Champagne Fever, Vautour – very good horses – all couldn’t pull the double off. Vautour wasn’t even considered quick enough to run in the Arkle.
Then of course you have to take in the likely scenario that he’ll have had less chase experience than both Min and Altior by the time the Arkle comes around. You could argue Altior’s been a bit dodgy. Don’t really know what Min’s been beating.
THEN you have to wonder whether he’ll go for the JLT – but after Bleu et Rouge today, and the fact that he was entered in the Wayward Lad in addition to Altior, as well as his ridiculous turn of foot, I see him more of a 2-miler.
Interestingly enough, for his chase debut Buveur D’Air received a RPR identical to Min for his Grade 1 win the other day. And Altior’s just running in egg and spoon races.
Ignore Buveur D’Air at your absolute peril. Whether he runs in the Arkle or JLT, who knows, but I think he’ll turn up here.
I don’t think it’s that Vautour wasn’t considered quick enough for the Arkle, more that Willie had UDS for that race
I could see the point with Thistlecrack – the Blue Riband, the Gold Cup. The QM’s a fine race but has nothing like the historic appeal and landmark status of the Gold Cup, or even the Champion Hurdle in my view.
Champion Hurdles V Arkle/2018 QM
Prestige – no contest
Prize money – no contest
Possible dual/triple Champion Hurdler to be called in the same breath as legends
Chance of injury arguably greater over fencesWhat on earth were they thinking about? It really does defy all logic.
Thinking long-term – wins Champion Chase in 14 months’ time Joe.
Really not seeing any reason why Min beats Altior or why it’s even considered.
More chance of cue Card beating TC and that won’t happen.
People judging this like a rematch as if they are fairly level talent wise.
Shouldn’t even be in the same breathe if you ask me. This whole round 2 thing makes people think it could go either way and then they see the prices and think MIN is great value. It’s Not!
Altior is totally different league to Min.
buveur Dair would of beaten Min of it had been given a better ride.
I don’t buy this whole min was injured bollocks. You don’t run 2nd in a supreme if you’re injuredMckelvey injured during the Grand National and finished second. Kauto Star injured at Exeter and won. Amaretto Rose injured jumping the second last in the Supreme and still finished 3rd. Killultagh Vic injured at Leopardstown and won.
You don’t ” buy ” the injury idea because you prefer the other horse, not because injured horses don’t complete races. If you think it’s bollocks then you haven’t a clue.
So…Altior vs Min Round 2?
Bit like Kauto Star vs Denman Round 3. Imperial Commander was the fly in the ointment that day.
A fly in the ointment this time? Buveur D’Air? I’m only just getting round to see what a freak of a horse this is!
Whether he’s good enough to beat Altior, I don’t know. He’s technically been beaten twice by Altior – he finished 3L ahead of him in a bumper but he was getting 10lbs. Then of course in the Supreme as well. But I just can’t help but be impressed with his jumping efforts so far. His debut vs Wait For Me was blistering – Wait For Me is a very good horse, and we’ll see that in the Coral Cup. He absolutely killed him that day.
The next start at Huntingdon was a non-event, but still, did it very nicely. He was plum last for a while during the Supreme, and I think he just got a little held up behind Supasundae going round the bend. Don’t think it affected the placings, but he would have been closer to Min. A more positive ride might have yielded a much better result however.
The Grade 1 novice hurdle from Aintree is working out very nicely. He (and Petit Mouchoir) killed Limini, and she of course was getting an allowance. Look 3 out – they’re alongside each other. Then look at the finish. I was watching RUK the other day and listened to what Ruby had to say about Limini after she won the Mares’ Novices. If Buveur D’Air and Petit Mouchoir can do that, giving 7lbs to her, they are serious horses.
As for his chase debut. Cloudy Dream is a very good horse and he should have won the Scottish Champion Hurdle. He’d had 2 previous chase starts (and wins) and is a very capable animal. But Buveur D’Air just killed him. He forged clear in the final furlong, just like vs Wait For Me, at Huntingdon and vs Limini. His turn of foot is insanely good. What’s even more impressive is that he was coming off an 8-month absence, and it was his chase debut. He was getting 8lbs that day, but watch the race again and tell me that it made a difference to the result.
Of course it all depends whether he can reverse form with Min and particularly Altior. Altior is a flat-bred horse, by High Chaparral, so it stands to reason he’d be more forward. Likewise Min, by Walk In The Park. Altior is of course also a year older. So there’s a decent possibility here as Buveur D’Air is NH-bred. A certain Sprinter Sacre (also FR-bred) was beaten 5 1/2L by Al Ferof in the Supreme, and 12 months later beat him by 32L in the Arkle. Cue Card finished 1L behind SS in the Supreme, then got routed in the Arkle. So it’s definitely possible. And the Supreme-Arkle double is very difficult to pull off. If you’re a freak like Douvan, it’s possible. But Al Ferof, Champagne Fever, Vautour – very good horses – all couldn’t pull the double off. Vautour wasn’t even considered quick enough to run in the Arkle.
Then of course you have to take in the likely scenario that he’ll have had less chase experience than both Min and Altior by the time the Arkle comes around. You could argue Altior’s been a bit dodgy. Don’t really know what Min’s been beating.
THEN you have to wonder whether he’ll go for the JLT – but after Bleu et Rouge today, and the fact that he was entered in the Wayward Lad in addition to Altior, as well as his ridiculous turn of foot, I see him more of a 2-miler.
Interestingly enough, for his chase debut Buveur D’Air received a RPR identical to Min for his Grade 1 win the other day. And Altior’s just running in egg and spoon races.
Ignore Buveur D’Air at your absolute peril. Whether he runs in the Arkle or JLT, who knows, but I think he’ll turn up here.
I don’t think it’s that Vautour wasn’t considered quick enough for the Arkle, more that Willie had UDS for that race
Vautour wins an Arkle, UDS less chance of winning a JLT. You win both by running Vautour in the less prestigious
race. It’s the reason why there are late changes to Mullins targets near Cheltenham, not because he’s in league with the bookies.
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