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Can you blame Queally after Newmarket? if I was on that horse I’d of gone for home 4f out too, knowing the engine you have under you its a chance to put on a show and create the finest spectacle Ascot has ever seen.
Your other idea of still galloping the horse for 4 furlongs
after
the winning post would surely make the finest spectacle that Ascot, or any other track, has ever seen IMO
I’m still not happy at all about "pacemakers" I thought somewhere in the rules of racing it says that every horse should run to it’s merits?
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highwaysI thought that Frankie made wonderful use of both pacemakers in the race beating So You Think while doing so. Brilliant ride.Memories of Lester riding Teenoso I believe it was in the KG.
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Can you blame Queally after Newmarket? if I was on that horse I’d of gone for home 4f out too, knowing the engine you have under you its a chance to put on a show and create the finest spectacle Ascot has ever seen.
Your other idea of still galloping the horse for 4 furlongs
after
the winning post would surely make the finest spectacle that Ascot, or any other track, has ever seen IMO
You love it Pilsen! like I’m also the only reason you come on here aswell – you even got my name ffs!
"When do you want me to hit the front sir?" That is all the instructions a jockey needs.
Akin to football IMO.
I’m sure the tactical aspect of an Alex Ferguson team talk isn’t confined to ‘get the ball in the back of the net however you think best lads’.
Surely the racing team that has thought through the best tactics most suited to their horse and considered how to react to various potential situations which might occur (pacemaker too fast, pacemaker too slow, chief competition doing something out of the ordinary, getting stuck in a pocket on the rails, getting stuck wide, etc, etc) would be at a significant advantage to those that went out without having thought those factors through?
Could be the longest sentence of the day that.
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Did Frankel win the other day or did I dream it?
[snip]
Maybe his willingness to ride to instructions is why Cecil uses him.
Indeed so. The reason for the falling out with Kieren Fallon over the ride he gave Cecil’s filly Bosra Sham in the Eclipse was not because she lost, but because the rider changed agreed wide-running tactics in a five runner race, got stuck on the rails and couldn’t get a run.
Queally is a different fish. Champion apprentice in 2004, he struggled for a while at the top level. All bar three of his 15 Group 1 successes have been for Cecil (5 on Midday, 4 on Twice Over, 3 so far on Frankel) and he’s on record as admitting how much he owes the trainer for the development of his race craft.
The arrangement looks set fair for both of them, at least while Juddmonte are happy with the status quo.
I remember a while back, Ruby Walsh saying that Ascot was the toughest test of stamina in the country. Granted Ruby doesn’t spend too much time at Towcester, but he wasn’t far wrong in that statement, imo. I was under the impression "before the bend" meant just before the bend and not three furlongs before the bend. Easy to say it now of course, but adapting Newmarket tactics to a much stiffer test at Ascot was just plain wrong. Frankel would have hosed up if waited with until the bend imo.
Most of the really top jocks have the self confidence to remain patient even under maximum pressure in the biggest races, its a trait that Mr Queally needs to develop if he wants to be compared in time with the likes of Murtagh, Hughes, Dettori and Fallon in his pomp, imo.
Hope he runs in the Sussex, Goodwood will suit Frankel’s exuberance. If they wait until the half mile, even a fast cruiser like Canford wont get a lookin, imo.
Still a believer.
Is the training of racehorses a profession only those with second sight should consider?
If not, I fail to understand why a trainer should believe he or she is in a position to proffer ‘instructions’ to the jockey. Of course both trainer and jockey – particularly before Group 1 events – should endeavour to paint a mental picture of how the race is likely to be run through diligent research of the field, and together they should formulate a riding plan that in the event of the race going to plan will hopefully allow their horse to perform up to its best
But as all we punters know only too well races that are run as we expect them to be are few and far between. So the trainer and jockey should arrive at a mutually agreed equivocal ‘idea’ rather than an unequivocal unilateral ‘instruction’; thereafter it is up to the jockey to bear this in mind but be flexible enough to alter it as he sees fit during the race itself. The correct reading of a race while it unfolds is the mark of a good, self-confident and aware jockey
For Queally to play the ‘riding to instructions’ card singles him out as an average, unconfident and unaware jockey. It would be hard to imagine the Cecil jockeys of yesteryear – Piggott, Cauthen and Fallon – firstly accepting ‘instructions’ and secondly sticking rigidly to them however the shape of the race evolves
In my opinion Tom Queally is, at present, neither good enough nor experienced enough nor confident enough to be retained as first jockey to a now-resurgent essentially tip-top stable. ‘Boxing above his weight’ ‘too high in the handicap’ are cliches-sufficient. He may make the weight with several more years’ experience; for his sake I hope he does, but for this spectator he is currently no more than ‘ordinary’
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Drone
, your point is well made as to the practical
facts
of the matter. In the Bosra Sham case, for instance, most people believed that although Fallon had ridden a relatively ill-judged race, Cecil was wrong to blame him so publicly for defeat.
However, practical fact does not quite meet the reality of trainers’ and owners’
feelings
about orders when it comes to the top horses in the top races.
The trainers live with these animals day in day out, whilst the jockeys can’t always be said to know them as deeply or regard them with the same affection. Some horses of course like the "special" feeling of somebody different on their backs (I remember how
Soviet Song
used to change character instantly from sleepy sheep to flirtatious, mettled filly as soon as she saw Johnny Murtagh on his way over to her in the paddock!) and many trainers don’t like the race day jockey on board beforehand.
Having invested so much time and emotion in a horse’s training, little wonder that the need for control extends to what happens on the racecourse. And he who pays the piper….
I’d agree with you that Tom Queally is too hot-headed to impress as an astute tactician, although he compensates for that in youthful strength, flair and horsemanship. He’s also highly articulate about what he’s doing. I’d guess that when
Frankel
is finally beaten, rightly or wrongly this pleasantly modest jockey will be first in line to take the rap.
Could it be that some are not ready to consider that Frankel like So You Think could in fact be beaten? Zoffany was one of Ballydoyle’s best 2yos last year and was not rushed to prepare for the Guineas.He was obviously in need of time and was allowed to mature at his own pace.
How come Moore was not lambasted for his riding of So You Think? He made the same decision as Queally and paid for it.Queally got away with it this time.Hope he learns for next time.If Frankie had been on Zoffany he would most likely have won.But that is racing and jockeys make mistakes. The truth is that apart from Frankie and Murtagh the rest of the jockeys in England are just average.{Ballydoyle will have many chances to regret the loss of Murtagh before the season ends.Murtagh is one of the best Epsom jockeys and could have won the Derby for them as well}.There are no "Rorys" on the horizon.your point is well made as to the practical
facts
of the matter. In the Bosra Sham case, for instance, most people believed that although Fallon had ridden a relatively ill-judged race, Cecil was wrong to blame him so publicly for defeat.
However, practical fact does not quite meet the reality of trainers’ and owners’
feelings
about orders when it comes to the top horses in the top races.
Having invested so much time and emotion in a horse’s training, little wonder that the need for control extends to what happens on the racecourse. And he who pays the piper….
I’d agree with you that Tom Queally is too hot-headed to impress as an astute tactician, although he compensates for that in youthful strength, flair and horsemanship. He’s also highly articulate about what he’s doing. I’d guess that when
Frankel
is finally beaten, rightly or wrongly this pleasantly modest jockey will be first in line to take the rap.
Fallon undoubtedly rode a poor race on Bosra Sham in the Eclipse, and the washing of dirty linen in public afterwards was most unCecil-like, though I’m of the opinion that the Fallon/Cecil partnership was always fraught, long befor the eternal triangular bust-up
But you’re right: given the hierarchical and patrician nature of racing there is always going to be pressure applied from owners onto trainers to do things ‘their way’ and likewise from trainers onto jockeys. But I maintain that race tactics should be at the discretion of the jockey once the race is underway; and a jockey with the nous to see that there is the need for a change or modification to the planned tactic and furthermore does it, is in my book a ‘good’ jockey. If his decision proves correct wallow in the plaudits, if it goes wrong take the blame ‘sorry guv I got that wrong’ and don’t shift the blame
I’ve nothing against Queally, my exposure to him is limited. I’m sure he’s a delightful chap, modest and eager to learn. Just haven’t been very impressed with what little I’ve seen of him in the top races, particularly on Frankel and perhaps moreso on the deposed Jacqueline Quest in last year’s Guineas, which was a panicky unbalanced culmination to a ride if ever there was one
I’ve nothing against Queally, my exposure to him is limited. I’m sure he’s a delightful chap, modest and eager to learn. Just haven’t been very impressed with what little I’ve seen of him in the top races, particularly on Frankel and perhaps moreso on the deposed Jacqueline Quest in last year’s Guineas, which was a panicky unbalanced culmination to a ride if ever there was one
I thought at the time, and still do, that Queally was trying to get Jacqueline Quest close to Special Duty because he thought she would battle for the win better. It is ironic that things didn’t go Queally’s way in the Queens Vase last week on Solar Sky. Silvestre de Sousa said after the race that he deliberately (and fairly) steered Namibian towards Solar Sky, with his whip in his right hand, because he thought that Namibian needed the company to encourage him to run on. The neck by which Namibian beat Solar Sky was a big enough margin to convince the stewards that moving Solar Sky off his line did not warrant a change in the placings. Hard Luck Tom lost out on both occasions.
Couldnt help thinking the same thing MV, especially as I backed Solar Sky. Perhaps the interference was worse with JQ though. It happened further out and there WAS actual contact.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I’ve nothing against Queally, my exposure to him is limited. I’m sure he’s a delightful chap, modest and eager to learn. Just haven’t been very impressed with what little I’ve seen of him in the top races, particularly on Frankel and perhaps moreso on the deposed Jacqueline Quest in last year’s Guineas, which was a panicky unbalanced culmination to a ride if ever there was one
I thought at the time, and still do, that Queally was trying to get Jacqueline Quest close to Special Duty because he thought she would battle for the win better. It is ironic that things didn’t go Queally’s way in the Queens Vase last week on Solar Sky. Silvestre de Sousa said after the race that he deliberately (and fairly) steered Namibian towards Solar Sky, with his whip in his right hand, because he thought that Namibian needed the company to encourage him to run on. The neck by which Namibian beat Solar Sky was a big enough margin to convince the stewards that moving Solar Sky off his line did not warrant a change in the placings. Hard Luck Tom lost out on both occasions.
I think Jacqueline Quest may be an even more complicated character than Frankel. Henry Cecil couldn’t even get her to eat properly and she joined Ian Williams last week..
And that is exactly the problem. Races are won in the minds of the stewards not on the track.When is interference too much when just enough and when is it to be ignored.All decided by the stewards and as they say doctors differ and patients die.What is the point in having rules if they are treated like guidelines.(Pirates of the Caribbean)Are present day English or Irish jockeys capable of riding a straight line to the winning post?I don’t think they are because they are not expected to do so.Look at all the times they are suspended,it is a joke unless they intended to ride a crooked line!
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Look at all the times they are suspended,it is a joke unless they intended to ride a crooked line!
As
Marginal Value
has pointed out, jockeys often
do
come off a true line quite intentionally, for tactical purposes (c.f. his post above on Sylvestre de Sousa’s brilliant whip-steering of
Namibian
towards the runner up in the
Queen’s Vase
, in order to give the colt something to race with).
A super ride, not least for its demonstration of how to win races by tactical use of the whip.
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