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So does anyone actually disagree with what the panel said re George Washington? If GW was racing on ID’s outside I think it is highly unlikely that Heffernan would have forced the horse wide. Or does anyone believe Heffernan was unable to stop his horse from drifting out? It obviously had no impact on the result and i doubt very much it was premeditated, but it certainly looks opportunistic to me.
It’s just race riding surely?
I’m still amazed Heffernan got anything at all. He wouldn’t have if Dettori hadn’t thrown his toys out of the pram.
Librettist (Re. How do people know when looking at a foal if he/she wants fast/slow pace) – if you look at the amount of Pride type turn of foot horses compared to the Hurricane Run type turn of foot horses, I’d say the difference was incredible. Surely if there were horses with Pride’s turn of foot than Hurricane Run’s turn of foot, then surely people would be COMPLAINING if there was pace in a race? But I do see your point about it being to the detriment of a Pride type horse’s chances.
I’ll have a look at British and Irish Group 1s of the past 2 years and post my findings on pacemakers later on. I won’t look at France because –
1) I don’t think I know all the Group 1s from France!<br>2) They have a pacemaker in almost every race and we already know that
EDIT – Looking at Group 1s in the past 2 years, 20% have been affected by a pacemaker.
Ballydoyle have been responsible for 11 of the 15 pacemakers, Godolphin 2, Royal Ascot Racing Club 1, and Brian Meehan’s stable used 1 for David Junior in the Eclipse.
I have to admit that I expected a higher rate. It is interesting to see that not 1 pacemaker was used at Royal Ascot for the past 2 years in the Group 1 races. The same goes for the Cambridgeshire meeting, and also Glorious Goodwood.
(Edited by jackane24 at 12:07 pm on Oct. 6, 2006)
Jackane
French group ones certainly do not always have pacemakers
interesting stats though, but what is a pacemaker and what isnt?
Earlier you indicated that Dt was a pacemaker for Hn in the Derby (which he clearly wasnt). Sometimes stables will run second strings simply because they have a sniff of a chance and maybe will help the pace along nicely if required. thats a different scenario and perhaps more appropiate to a lot of the Ballydoyle runners. Its alittle hard to define where the line is sometimes…
I would have thought the godolphin figure was higher…but interesting to see its not
I think taht with stamina less prevalent in the breed, the use of pacemakers is going to be less common (it is already i think…) than before..
The comment that banning pacemakers would cause prices to drop in the sales ring certainly caused the biggest laugh in my office this week.
Still trying to figure that one out.
Having said that, I don’t think pacemakers should be ‘banned’. Flagging them in racecards would be helpful, but Clive’s right that there is often a fine line between a genuine contender and a ‘complementary’ stable mate.
Clivex – Good point. But I did go through the race description and look at videos of races where I had some doubt. Subsequently, based on what I was told about O’Brien having a go at Johnny Murtagh, I didn’t class him as a pacemaker.
Going back to 2004 (2003 for the RP Trophy, Champion Stakes + Dewhurst since they haven’t been run this year yet) – 28% of the Group 1s had pacemakers. 2 races actually had 2 pacemakers.
Godolphin had 10 pacemakers of the 32.<br>Ballydoyle 20.<br>Brian Meehan 1.<br>Royal Ascot Racing Club 1.
However, of Ballydoyle’s 20 pacemakers, 67% came in Ireland.
The most popular races to be using pacemakers were the Irish Champion Stakes , QE2, National Stakes, King George and the Irish Guineas.
When I said every race in France had a pacemaker, I was using a bit of exaggeration. I’ll take a look anyway, but I’d expect a rate of around 60%.
The decision of the appeals panel seemed to follow that of many recently in being "partially successful" (see HRA website). <br>Thus there is something for everyone and the local stewards are vindicated to an extent.<br>BALLYDOYLE- cleared of organising "team tactics"<br>DETTORI- jockey and Ascot PR man finds an excuse for what was arguably a poor ride in dashing his mount up on the outside .<br>ASCOT STEWARDS- detected a riding offence, albeit the wrong one<br>HEFFERNAN- got a result of sorts in being cleared of team tactics and improper riding but found guilty of careless riding.<br>This conveniently suits all and there is to be no further appeal.<br>Heffernan still copped a fairly lengthy ban for a riding offence which would have barely attracted notice had it not been for Dettori’s histrionics and the suspicion of team tactics.<br>
lingfield I agree with your comments. interesting case coming up before HRA young B Reilly, cannot afford representation so will appear unrepresented and the HRA will have professionals on the job, total unequality of arms
Quote: from bluechariot on 10:43 pm on Oct. 6, 2006[br]lingfield I agree with your comments. interesting case coming up before HRA young B Reilly, cannot afford representation so will appear unrepresented and the HRA will have professionals on the job, total unequality of arms
I agree with you about legal representation.<br>There can’t be many jobs where those suspected of an offence are instantly marched before a panel and face being deprived of their livelihood for a substantial number of days with little opportunity to take advice in general or be legally represented in particular.<br>Without being patronising, not all jockeys are highly intelligent or articulate and confident verbally  under pressure in an austere enviroment. Heffernan seemed to have problems before the Ascot panel whereas Dettori is a big name with substantial media and TV experience. <br>Lack of legal support appears to fly in the face of natural justice. I work in law enforcement and all persons arrested or attending a police station voluntarily to be interviewed under caution about an alleged offence have the right to free legal advice.<br>I also have some sympathy for the stewards in that although guided by the stipe, not all are experienced and more to the point, they make quick judgements without recourse to all available evidence e.g. trainer might not be there, haven’t got access to film of a horse’s previous run, vets evidence etc. Thus they make some decisions which stand scrutiny but others where the penalty is substantially reduced at appeal, leaving a small penalty to save embarrassment to the stewards. This is almost a kind of negotiated wheeler dealing which suits all.<br>It’s virtually impossible to get thrown out for interference now. Best local stewards confine themselves to dishing out short bans for whip offences and careless riding and refer more serious matters centrally.
(Edited by Lingfield at 8:05 am on Oct. 7, 2006)
Aussie Rules just hosed in against the American milers in a Grade 1. George Washington has NOTHING to fear from the rest of the American milers!!!
See how close the Irish listed/Group 3 horse got to him???? I am referring to Lord Admiral.
As for Aussie Rules, absolutely sure it wasnt a strong race, but I am equally absolutely sure Aragorn has been running in the same standard races all year!!!! Granted a clear run, George will win it in a canter.
But dylan thomas has shown what happens sometimes with these transatlantic trips…
Not sure why he was beaten, but my worry with GW is that the temperament might resurface (ascot last time was a relaxed arena) and whether the tight turns (although what exactlyis the course like at churchill?) will show him at his best. A tardy start could be a problem too
Hope he wins of course, but not going to take a short price…
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