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I think this needs to end once and for all to be honest, because it’s getting embarrassing.
Let me run you through Sizing Europe’s Chase career.
Sitting comfortably?Debut: hacked up, foot perfect
G3: bolted up, foot perfect
G2: lagged up, lit a cigar
G1: won easily, slapping Osana
G1:pay attention
: won this an absolute mile out, breathtaking leaps included, foot perfect, and destroyed the field, idling after the last (he’d outclassed the field for ages by this point).
G1: 3rd, btn 7L by GSOR 161
, 2.5L by A CHAMPION CHASE AND MELLING CHASE runner-up
OR 165
Now, I give you our wonder-horse (he is a nice horse).
Have we removed those flowery spectacles? Good.
Chase career of Captain Cee Bee:Debut: won, just, after injury lay-off, from a horse rated
150
.
G1: FELL. Race won byfuture Arkle Champion
.
10k race: lagged up
G1:pay attention
: made mistakes early and broke a blood vessel, finished 8th to
the Arkle Champion
.
G1: beat a horseOR 143
by 4L.
So please stop banging on about a horse who is
not
an Arkle winner, will be 10 next season, and who has burst blood vessels and fallen in his chase career to date.
If people are
STILL
using Osana as a guide, I fear for you, I really do. Hopefully, the above helps.
Must admit id say that id take Sizing Europe over Capt Cee Bee every day of the week. CCB did it well enough today but the race turned into a bit of a shambles tbh
Big Buck’s, how can you say for certain that Sizing Europe is better than Cee Bee?
I’ve argued my point many many times before and tbh I’m too tired to do so again, but can you explain how Capatain Cee Bee was cantering all over Sizing Europe earlier in the season? We all know Cee Bee fell and Sizing didn’t (no need to say this again BB), look with your eyes and tell me how this was possible for Cee Bee to make SE look slow!
Thanks
Like I said, it’s getting embarrassing.
Sizing Europe is Arkle Champion, Captain Cee Bee is not
Sizing Europe has beaten Captain Cee BeeTWICE
Sizing Europe has never been beaten by Captain Cee Bee
Sizing Europe has never fallen or finished unplaced in his chase career.
Sizing Europe’s form is better than Captain Cee Bee’s
Sizing Europe is more consistent than Captain Cee Bee
Sizing Europe is more durable, tougher, than Captain Cee Bee.What more do people want?
As for the race to which you refer, in your experience, do horses always finish their races as well as they travel through them? Did a horse make a key mistake in that race? Was that race similar to the Arkle in terms of the number of runners, the pace at which both races were run, and the overall quality of the field? Was the ground the same? Were the horses equally well prepared and targeted for that race. Which horse WON the race?
Any more?
Sounds to me, Big buck’s, that you are looking for excuses as to why SE was being cantered all over by Cee Bee in Ireland.
If Cee Bee beats SE next NH season no doubt you will find your "reasons".
I think Cee Bee’s falling and breaking blood vessels are pretty good ones.
Zip
I suggest you watch the race again. Sizing Europe was traveling well to the last, he was making his winning move, a move which put pressure on his opponent and forced a mistake from him, but people see what they want to see, and re-invent things accordingly.
I notice, with great amusement, that you are constantly referring to one race in which the horse made a mistake and fell – hardly the stuff of champions. Much like beating a 143 rated horse by 4L, you ignore everything, and it seems the excuses are flowing fast from everywhere but the Sizing Europe camp.
Makes me laugh.
I’m sure, but that only proves that your case is not only wafer-thin, but part of it has a massive hole in it, how does that feel? Breezy?
Right, here we go…
Captain Cee Bee burst at Cheltenham, so rule that out because it wasn’t his best form. He fell when beside Sizing Europe at Leopardstown when cantering. From history we know that Cee Bee finds a helluva lot off the bridle whereas Sizing finds less than seems likely. Therefore I feel it’s safe to assume he would have beaten SE that day, easily imo. That horse he beat today, Let Yourself Go, is not to be underestimated on good going and too ksome pegging back today. At the end of the day I want a horse who will find plenty and battle on my side, and SE won’t do that for you.
thm, best leave it there, as I’m afraid that’s total nonsense, with the Arkle run itself proving you comprehensively wrong about him.
The biggest smile? By your own logic, you have to admit that Sizing Europe would have been one of the easiest Champion Hurdle winners of all time, one of the great performances, as he was cantering all over the field until he got injured, but that doesn’t matter, what matters is how he was traveling, so he’s in effect a Champion Hurdler and an Arkle winner.
So you see, better than Captain Cee Bee WHICHEVER WAY you want to dress it up. I’m off to bed, mind you, that fall, that 8th and that beating of a 143 rated chaser, will have me dreaming of a…oh no…wait….
Did you not see the way Captain Cee Bee effortlessly closed on a flat out Sizing Europe at Leopardstown? 
Whatever way you want to look at that run, the only fair way of looking at it, Captain Cee Bee comes out on top in terms of ability. Horses fall, even the best. If you think Sizing Europe was going better, finds more for pressure than Cee Bee then this whole argument has been a waste of my time because I’m fighting a losing battle.
Sizing Europe wins a Grade 1 chase when left at the last when about to be swallowed by this monster, then beats a horse who is no more a 2 miler than I am an Olympic sprinter at Cheltenham. What happened the other day? Cruised until the 2nd last, then bang, puked his ring.
The Captain has beaten a Champion Hurdler on unsuitable ground and defeated the supremely talented Zaarito (who I rate higher than any of the horses behind Sizing Europe at Cheltenham) when only half fit. I think he would have defeated Sizing Europe by 5+ lengths that day, but alas we will never know.
Good luck to you sir
- Total Posts 17716
With Dunguib and Solwhit both needing softer/further to be at their best, and a (possibly unfit?) Hurricane Fly yet to prove he can take on the big boys, I’ll side with Punjabi.
He disappointed at Cheltenham, but that obviously wasn’t his true form, and it might be worth recalling that Barry Geraghty favoured him over the horse that eventually finished 3rd.
At 13/2, I’ll take the chance he’s back to his best.This thread, chiefly the CCB/SE bickering, is getting a tad tedious guys……
Let’s just look forward to what should be a stunning Champion Hurdle this evening – can’t wait to see Dunguib/Hurricane Fly/Solwhit plus a few more top class hurdlers take each other on, best race of the festival for me.
Todays race will tell us more about Dunguib than any of his others……..certainly a race to savour!!…….shame its going off at 5.30 though i wont get outta work in time to see it!!
Captain Cee Bee will be let down by his jumping which is the one big thing Sizing Europe has over him, more often than not its going to catch him up, there is no doubt though if Captain Ce Bee puts in a clear round no one beats him, not even Big Zeb, remember when they competed on a flat race Big Zeb couldnt live with Captain Cee Bee, Binocular couldn’t beat him, spent ages of the track and could still win.
If Captain Cee Bee gets his jumping right for the Champion Chase next year nothing will beat him but its a big ask for his jumping to hold up there.
Sizing Europe would have been one of the easiest Champion Hurdle winners of all time, one of the great performances, as he was cantering all over the field until he got injured,
I’m not getting dragged into the SE v. CCB debate but I must agree with the quote above, now all I need is Big Buck’s to agree with me that Quevega will be giving him sleepless nights between now and next March
Let’s just look forward to what should be a stunning Champion Hurdle this evening – can’t wait to see Dunguib/Hurricane Fly/Solwhit plus a few more top class hurdlers take each other on, best race of the festival for me.
This looks a far better race than The Cheltenham Champ Hurdle, the price available against Muirhead brings the two races into perspective.
I’m getting slightly nervous re Dunguib, but I’ve no problems with Brian O’Connell although I don’t think that was his best ride ever at Cheltenham but the pressure must have been immense with Ireland’s financial recovery in his hands, he’ll be a lot more relaxed today.
Just in case I have an ew saver placed on Voler La Vedette despite the fact that I’m not a big fan of AP, the 9-1 available is just ridiculous, great to see Katie Walsh keeps the ride on Thousand Stars even though they only appear to have a supporting role at best.
Solwhit will be in a lot better nick today than at Cheltenham and has to be a danger to all.
This time last year it’s hard to imagine anyone opposing Hurricane Fly but this field looks too strong for a horse with a less than perfect preperationGood luck to all, lets hope there is a true pace, no fallers and no hard luck stories, may the best horse (or mare) win
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