- This topic has 28 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 23 years, 1 month ago by
.
- Posts
I have heard it stated many times now that there are only a handful of full-time professional punters in this country.  I suspect that the ‘handful’ that is referred to includes those that make a significant second income (if not a main income) from journalism/TV appearances and so forth. I simply cannot belive the number is so small.
I always thought that if I was a professional on-course punter I would not want to be recognised as such.  I would want to keep a low profile for as long as possible rather than having my bet size limited or being forced to bet with a small number of bookmakers.
Things have obviously moved on with the advent of internet betting, ATR & Racing Channel and the betting exchanges. Nowadays, there seems to be an endless number of punters posting on this forum and others, who claim to make a living from betting and refer to the bad old days when they had to work for a living.  My question is, how many people are out there who make their living solely from betting (or laying) horses?  I exclude bookmakers, the journalist types I referred to and students topping up their grants/loans.  I want to gauge the number of people who have chosen to try to make their living solely from betting.
Any thoughts?
well there`s me valueseeker, but not sure if i would class myself as a pro punter as such but nevertheless make a living from betting only.
DJ, just a little question.
Do you trust your own judgement when betting, or do you follow subscription tipsters alone?
I see you publish your accounts every month, but just wondering are you tempted ot back your "own" horses,or rely on the tipsters.
morgans harbour- lost the habit of backing my selections 2 years ago ! <br>i kept a record and lost £10k in 12 months and that told me everything i needed to know.<br>since then i have the very rare flutter but to very very small stakes in comparison to my proper betting, so just tipsters now.
Ian,
so are you suggesting there are 100 full-time bona fide professional gamblers in the UK?
Does that include those who supplement their incomes via journalism etc a la apracing??
Or would should it be based on income per annum? In other words, what makes one officially a professional gambler?
If you were to believe the betfair forum you’d swear the number was in the 1000s!
<br>Does using my experience to write about racing disqualify me from the job title then?
Reminds me of a comment on another chat room that suggested I couldn’t be called a real pro punter as I’d had a redundancy payment to get me started.
Like all these things, it depends on your definition. If you’re going to take purist line and limit the job title to those that have no other source of income, then I only know two! Because of course, you’d have to discount those with a working wife that helps out with the mortgage.
As for the idea that anonymity helps in the betting ring, I’d say that opposite is more true. Being known means that the bookies know that I’m not putting on for somebody else, that I’m not laundering the money, and that I’ll be there again in future. Being known also means I can call bets without having to wait around for a ticket to be printed.
My own guess (and it can never be more than that) as to the numbers of full time punters across the country. Well I know plenty that have set themselves up in the last one to two years using the Net and it wouldn’t surprise me to find that there were between 300 and 500 people now making the bulk of their living from betting.
Not as many as the residents of Fantasy Island (aka BF forum) would like us to believe, but far more than five years ago, when on course was really the only option.
Alan
<br>Ian,
I certainly wouldn’t welcome the loss of anonymity on BF. I wouldn’t want my business visible to every other user, any more than I would want bets announced over the PA system on course!
If I offer to lay a horse, I don’t care who has backed it. Even if I recognise the name, I can’t cancel the trade, so where’s the advantage. And most of the names would mean nothing.
Alan
Quote: from Valueseeker on 1:39 pm on Dec. 5, 2002[br]<br>Nowadays, there seems to be an endless number of punters posting on this forum and others, who claim to make a living from betting and refer to the bad old days when they had to work for a living
I doubt ANY truthful professional gambler would refer to comments like yours above as I know for a fact (from common sense/close friend – not personal experience) that a full-time gambler will put in a lot more hours than a 9-5 job, so I doubt they’ll ever say it’s an easy life as it isn’t!!
I would hazard a guess at there being more than 100 on the exchanges. If you want to include substantial second income as qualification then i would be in there. I still do the day job because I love it. And no, it is isn’t easy making money via betting. :)
I must say I’m fascinated by this.
I’ll give the guesstimate game a go – and hopefully some people with real numbers will add to the mix.
Let’s take Ian and Alan’s guesses and compromise.
Let’s say there are 100 ‘full-time’ professional gamblers.<br>But let’s also guess there are 500 bona fide professional gamblers who wisely supplement their incomes for any number of reasons (to get out of the house strikes me as one of the best).
In actuarial terms let’s use the factor of five to guess there are another 2500 out there who consistently make a decent ‘semi-pro’ return from gambling of, say £10000 plus per annum.
Extending that factor would lead us to another 12500 people who can claim to consistently, if modestly, beat the bookies.
15510 in total.
Guesstimating from the other end I’ve tried to think about how many ‘regular’ gamblers there may be. <br>The number I set upon was 1.5 million. (There must be bookmakers out there who know what this number really is).
That would mean that 1% of gamblers are successful. And considerably less than that – ‘professionally’ successful.
Any thoughts?<br>
Thanks for the responses.  We seem to agree that there are certainly more than a ‘handful’ out there these days, even if not the 1000s some would suggest.
Daylight – regarding 9-5 job and so on – I was just referring to comments I have read.  I have absolutely no doubt that professional punters put in many more hours than most other workers.
APracing – it makes perfect sense to me that some professional punters supplement their incomes through journalism and so forth.  I was just interested in how many have to win at the races to make a living.  I would guess that you and others could now make a decent income purely from writing, TV appearances and so forth.
Having a wife whose earnings can pay the mortgage and so on is a grey area for me.  A bit of belt-tightening might be enough for some to allow that income to be sufficient and not rely on betting winnings.  I want to know about the hardy souls who have no other source of income and are mad enough to give up their day jobs to try to make a living from betting. LOL
hi all,<br>I will add my bit on this subject, I visit the northern tracks regular,Redcar for instance is a small friendly track, its easy to spot the faces, and when I travel to the other local tracks they are there, you get to know these faces when you see them rush in with a wad when the price is right, often £500 bets or more, I carnt say if these guys are pro’s but there are about 7 or8 of the same faces that I recognise, I have learned to look out for them and sometimes follow their bet on a smaller scale.
I wonder how many there are like me? I am retired but use the exchanges to provide a second income. I spend many, many days on  research, and have done since starting on the Flutter site. I approach my ‘business’ purely on a retailing basis, that is, I buy and sell ‘stock’ to make a profit.  On the other hand I am a life-long punter who loves racing; but my gambling I keep to pinmoney. Knowing your limititations is everything IMO.
                Scipio
theres a new breed of pro gambler like you and i scipio who trade and treat the exchanges more like sports futures markets, trading fixed odds contracts for a profit.
Sounds as though I don’t qualify either because my partner works ( albeit part- time ) Never mind, I’ve never thought of myself as a ‘ hardy soul’ anyway.
I wouldn’t say APracing couldn’t make a ‘ decent income ‘ from media work alone, but I do have some idea how much he’s paid for writing and TV work.I also have some idea of his betting – Lets just say I’d take his betting winnings any day….. the man is a very shrewd judge.
I think there are probably now far more than you imagine – sports betting is a mushrooming market and i suspect over 1000 now try and make a living from this alone. I’m one of those, with a limited knowledge of racing, but am learning fast. DJ would you be prepared to divulge, privately , or on the forum, which services you have been using to generate your profit. Does anyone have any advice about services that will not only turn over a healthy profit but also educate,
Many thanks for any assistance
ian i have heard this argument many times about why a succesful tipster would need to sell his tips, why not lump on even more himself.
whatever the reasons are the fact is some tipsters see the subs they collect as easy money in addition to their own profits so why not ?
also apart from short price horses, were you can lump on betfair as much as you like, if you are a very succesful punter then lumping on big price horses does become very very difficult. bookies start restricting and closing your accounts and even on betfait there is not always lumps of dosh for those wanting to back at big prices. so in these circumstances a genuine succesful punter may well have to sell his tips so that he doesnt have the problem of not always getting on and the subs make up for that.
you can make money from taking the right advice as i have proven !
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.