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Basically, according to Allen, for horses rated below 75 it is virtually impossible to make money as an owner.
Do those fortunate enough to be in possession of sufficient surplus capital to indulge in the frivolous hobby of racing horses expect to ‘make money’ from doing it?
Tell me how an ever-growing legion of small-time owners racing an ever-growing legion of "below 75" horses can expect prize money levels to be at a similar level to those golden days when we had something resembling a sane fixture list?
Doesn’t Mr Allen realise that if prize money for run-of-the-mill races wasn’t at its current paltry level then he and his colleagues who cater primarily for the aforementioned influx of small-time owners wouldn’t exist.
Take it or leave it old chap
I think he’s been forced to leave it Drone. He handed his licence in earlier in the year, hence why he’s on ATR putting me to sleep this afternoon.
I take your points guys, but I am alarmed that the money situation is so dire (never realised it before). Surely you don’t need to be a brain surgeon to realise the current state of the sport actively encourages connections to lay their horses on the exchanges?
Have you been in hibernation for the last few years? Did they actually mention laying horses to make ends meet?
Conrad Allen runs a small hotel aka bed and breakfast establishment ( I have stayed there two occasions) having failed to make his name training racehorses to make enough money to continue.
Fact.So what right has some person who is in the
‘hotel game’ to give him (and to allow his partner max credit) when in fact they run a B and B and not currently involved in horse racing have some sort of platform on a horse racing televison channel?Better to call some one such as APracing who knows the current state of play!
Next move will be getting Rocco Forte or one of his family to make some opinion on what horse will win the Grand National!
Sir Michael Stoute is currently free to discuss the delights of point to point racing.
David Pipe is waiting for calls about the low draw advantage in sprint races at Chester.
Chris Bell the Ladbrokes M.D. is on line just about to explain why betfair will some day take over his company.
Mark Johnston is free (for a small fee)
to talk about his concerns for small trainers that will earn in a year what he will rake in on a good day.Dont be afraid anyone can join in!
Current rate is just £30.00.per interview I am led to beleive.A local back street boozer in Brighton (aka Racing Pub of the Year 2007) The Engineer have paid for the training fees and costs for 5 race horses since the syndicate started 3 years ago.
The’ Bad Boys ‘ will never see any horse racing at the Cheltenham Fetsival unless they are very lucky.
No need to hire a top Hat and Tails for Royal Ascot either!
Bad choice of horses overall as just 1 has ever won a single race.
(yet many decent punters involved but overall no one knows anything regarding what horse to buy for except it cant be costing much)
.
After all training costs jockey fees and trainers percentages no one really expected to make much money and that has proved correct.
Over £22k won now but everyone still has to keep paying in!But no one could ever guess how one very moderate horse such as Misbehaviour (the only winner so far) could provide so much fun.
Just like AP with his horse Salute some love horse racing without the constant moan ups regarding prize money.
Surely you don’t need to be a brain surgeon to realise the current state of the sport actively encourages connections to lay their horses on the exchanges?
How pleasing to find another member of TRF that automatically assumes all owners are corrupt.
AP (not a brain surgeon)
The current situation in the UK means that were an owner to find at the end of a "winning" season he was still down on his investment, the temptation must be present to "stop" the horse who has given him/her multiple wins (especially as that horse is likely to be returned a short price), and laying him on the exchanges. Thereby recouping some of ther losses
This model of human behaviour simply doesn’t stack up. If you are prepared to cheat for financial gain, then you are prepared to do it whether the current prize money is poor or not. I can buy the argument that starving peasants in pre-Revolutionary France might be forced to steal a loaf of bread. I can buy the argument that sudden mass unemployment in a one-industry community might lead to some section of that community turning to crime. But why would an otherwise honest owner, confronted with a disappointing return on his investment decide that the obvious course of action is to cheat? If you buy shares that then fall in value, do you inevitably turn to insider trading or fraud?
The real problem in racing is the handicap system that actively encourages people to disguise the abilities or current well being of their horse and means that on any given day a large percentage of horses are not running on their merits. No other sport has subterfuge as such a central part of its structure. If Manchester United play a weakened team against Walsall in the third round of the FA Cup we all know that the team is weaker and furthermore, United will not receive a goal’s head start in the next week’s Premier League game if they get knocked out.
You can disguise it all you like.
You can debate it all you like and compare to other sports, however the bottom line is, what happens is cheating and corrupt.
Blame it on what you like but that is the bottom line.
People do their hobbies to enjoy them, be it play golf, football whatever.
People go in to horse ownership at a low level to win money be it drop lucky with a good horse or get one over on the bookies by cheating, whatever you want to call it.
Obviously not every owner does it but I would suggets a good deal do.
The current situation in the UK means that were an owner to find at the end of a "winning" season he was still down on his investment, the temptation must be present to "stop" the horse who has given him/her multiple wins (especially as that horse is likely to be returned a short price), and laying him on the exchanges. Thereby recouping some of ther losses
This model of human behaviour simply doesn’t stack up. If you are prepared to cheat for financial gain, then you are prepared to do it whether the current prize money is poor or not. I can buy the argument that starving peasants in pre-Revolutionary France might be forced to steal a loaf of bread. I can buy the argument that sudden mass unemployment in a one-industry community might lead to some section of that community turning to crime. But why would an otherwise honest owner, confronted with a disappointing return on his investment decide that the obvious course of action is to cheat? If you buy shares that then fall in value, do you inevitably turn to insider trading or fraud?
The real problem in racing is the handicap system that actively encourages people to disguise the abilities or current well being of their horse and means that on any given day a large percentage of horses are not running on their merits. No other sport has subterfuge as such a central part of its structure. If Manchester United play a weakened team against Walsall in the third round of the FA Cup we all know that the team is weaker and furthermore, United will not receive a goal’s head start in the next week’s Premier League game if they get knocked out.
Please don’t use the example of ‘peasants’ in pre-revolutionary France in an unnecessary and pompous manner to try and make yet another attempt at a poetic response.
Please don’t use the example of ‘peasants’ in pre-revolutionary France in an unnecessary and pompous manner to try and make yet another attempt at a poetic response.
Why on earth not! I wouldn’t expect anything less from someone who had apparently purposefully chosen Oscar Wilde as an avatar – meaning the embodiment / essence / incarnation of the adoptee. If one can tolerate the often incoherent sentence construction of Gamble or the brevity and to the point directness of Barry Dennis then one can put up with the flowery prose attempts of Andrew Hughes. After all is written and read horseracing is what it’s about – style is just a by-product.
Well said pod ~ either a response is valid or not. Let’s not get tied up with prose style.
Bless you Salselon for taking such a keen interest in my prose style. It is too flattering to have such an avid fan, though if you could keep the stalking to a minimum, I’d be eternally grateful.
On the subject of my prose style, I have to inform you that my good friend, the Duc de Pompositee, who hangs on my every word, once remarked, whilst we were dining at Versailles that, in his opinion, there was no man more straightforward and less flowery in his manner of conversation than I, nor, he went on to add, were there any grounds for supposing that my long and occasionally interminable sentences were anything other than the very apogee of dazzling wit and learning. And, since his distant ancestors were once removed from their chateau in the dead of night by an angry and unhygienic mob wielding pitchforks and tricolours, he is well-placed to confirm the existence of peasants in pre-Revolutionary France, rendering your apostrophic addition to the word in question a redundant and entirely superfluous one.
well said Andrew , your posts are becoming as famed as a certain sheep . who now grazes in the climes of racing oblivion, sadly this forum laments this , and now hey presto we have you to brighten up proceedings
on a serious note , low grade racing will eventually dissapear as the appetite for it continues to dwindle , its just a question of time before the number of low grade meetings is drastically reduced
not all owners are corrupt or trainers either , however racing for 1500 quid or less must and surely does temp others who are not persuaded to play the game by the rules
cheers
Ricky
MP,
If you see a car with the keys in it, do you jump in and drive it away on the grounds that car ownership has become much more expensive?
Do you shoplift on the basis that food is so much costly than it was a year ago?
Do you travel by bus or train whilst avoiding payment of the fares just because they’ve increased?
Or do you really believe that racehorse owners are different to the rest of the population and thus more prone to be corrupted?
There are dishonest people in all walks of life, but if you have evidence that the percentage is greater amongst owners please share it with us.
AP
well said Andrew , your posts are becoming as famed as a certain sheep . who now grazes in the climes of racing oblivion, sadly this forum laments this , and now hey presto we have you to brighten up proceedings
on a serious note , low grade racing will eventually dissapear as the appetite for it continues to dwindle , its just a question of time before the number of low grade meetings is drastically reduced
not all owners are corrupt or trainers either , however racing for 1500 quid or less must and surely does temp others who are not persuaded to play the game by the rules
cheers
Ricky
Gamble has reappeared lately and offered some waffle.. Good waffle obviously.. With syrup.
On the subject of my prose style, I have to inform you that my good friend, the Duc de Pompositee, who hangs on my every word, once remarked, whilst we were dining at Versailles that, in his opinion, there was no man more straightforward and less flowery in his manner of conversation than I, nor, he went on to add, were there any grounds for supposing that my long and occasionally interminable sentences were anything other than the very apogee of dazzling wit and learning. And, since his distant ancestors were once removed from their chateau in the dead of night by an angry and unhygienic mob wielding pitchforks and tricolours, he is well-placed to confirm the existence of peasants in pre-Revolutionary France, rendering your apostrophic addition to the word in question a redundant and entirely superfluous one.
Wilde or Kafka? I can’t decide now.
Anyhow, Andrew, I agree with the handicap points you raised here as much as the delicious prose here and elsewhere.
In fact, just do us a favour and live forever, please.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
‘hotel game’ to give him (and to allow his partner max credit) when in fact they run a B and B and not currently involved in horse racing have some sort of platform on a horse racing televison channel?
to talk about his concerns for small trainers that will earn in a year what he will rake in on a good day.
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