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What rating do you have for Ouija Board and Bosra Sham. When you say "even" Bosra Sham it makes you sound as though you rate OB higher than BS.
Zarkava is superior (much) to OB but below BS in my opinion.
Like I said, I’m not a big fan of ratings and don’t compile my own. I enjoy reading opinion on ratings and they are great for the purpose of debating, but they’re not for me.
As my username suggests, I was a huge fan of Bosra Sham and she’s a favourite of mine.
However, actions speak louder than words (or ratings) and Ouija Board enjoyed far greater success than Bosra Sham.
You can only judge a horse on what they achieve and OB achieved more than BS.
If you want my opinion on pure ability, Bosra Sham was a superior talent and, if given the opportunity, she could have been one of the true greats and up there with the very best.
Sadly, her well documented foot problem meant we never got to see the very best of her. It’s incredible to think she still had the ability to win a classic on ‘three legs’. You could put her Dubai Champion Stakes win over Halling, who hadn’t been beaten on turf in two years, right up their with any single piece of form Ouija Board or Zarkava (has) ever produced.
Of course, we all remember her Royal Ascot win. Granted, the Prince Of Wales was only a Group 2 at the time, but that was still the most impressive performance from any high class filly I’ve ever seen.
Based on achievement alone, I’d rate Ouija Board higher than Bosra Sham and Zarkava. It’s a tough call between Bosra Sham and Zarkava on ability.
Due to her form over any distance between eight and twelve furlongs (she beat Goldikova over a mile, who subsequently beat Paco’s Boy and Henrythenavigator) I’d say Zarkava is the best filly I’ve seen in the last 10 -15 years.
Thats fair enough…you OB achieved more on paper with her wins, but Bosra Sham (I feel) achieved more when destroying the colts and was much the superior filly in terms of ability. That is what I would rate them and other horses on.
Zarkava is better than Ouija Board and Bosra Sham surely? I can’t imagine either of them winning an Arc in any conditions and Bosra Sham was put firmly in her place over a mile by Mark Of Esteem. Can anyone imagine Henry / Raven’s Pass doing that to Zarkava? I can’t.
I honestly didn’t expect her jockey to take the passage he did. I had visons of Sea Bird II’s Derby win with her coming round the outside of the field. Was I wrong or what?
Yes, on two counts Fist
– Sea Bird came from two off the rail, turning from home ( lobbing along on the bridle) and when Glennon pressed the button… whoosh ! It was all over in the blink of an eye.You must be thinking of Dancing Brave, who motored ( as we all know ) down the outside to win the race.
As for Zarkava; I know it’s all about personal opinions – but I reckon she would have given any filly in the last 40 years a race – and would probably have beaten them. Allez France, Dahlia, Pebbles, Oh So Sharp, Ouija Board, Bosra Sham, Indian Skimmer et al. That’s what I think anyway – and I saw all those fillies race.
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As for Zarkava; I know it’s all about personal opinions – but I reckon she would have given any filly in the last 40 years a race – and would probably have beaten them. Allez France, Dahlia, Pebbles, Oh So Sharp, Ouija Board, Bosra Sham, Indian Skimmer et al. That’s what I think anyway – and I saw all those fillies race.
tend to agree with you
I can go back to Petite Etoile, and I can’t say I’ve seen a better 3-y-o filly than Zarkava. She really is the business.
Let’s hope she’s kept in training next year
forget about which horse is or was the best; it’s how you feel on the day watching a horse achieve something special..all Sunday afternoon I was excited at the thought that I may or may not witness something that would be very special, and she didn’t let me down..after a race that you know people will be talking about for years to come just appreciate what you’ve seen and thank the God of Racing for it…
Zarkava is better than Ouija Board and Bosra Sham surely? I can’t imagine either of them winning an Arc in any conditions and Bosra Sham was put firmly in her place over a mile by Mark Of Esteem. Can anyone imagine Henry / Raven’s Pass doing that to Zarkava? I can’t.
Due to injury Bosra Sham hadn’t run since winning the 1000 Guineas when she faced Mark Of Esteem. I find it hard to believe that she ran to her best that day after such a long layoff. In terms of ability Bosra Sham & Zarkarva are the two best filly’s I’ve seen ahead of Ouija Board.
In terms of great Arc winners, Zarkarva would certainly make my top ten. For me Peintre Celebre, Montjeu, Sahkee & Helissio would be my top four. Then I’d bracket Zarkarva in with the likes of Suave Dancer, Lammtarra, Sinndar, Dalakahni & Dylan Thomas.
Hopefully the Aga Khan decides to keep Zarkarva in training as it would be wonderful to watch her run as a 4yo. I doubt it will happen though.
Zarkava is better than Ouija Board and Bosra Sham surely? I can’t imagine either of them winning an Arc in any conditions and Bosra Sham was put firmly in her place over a mile by Mark Of Esteem. Can anyone imagine Henry / Raven’s Pass doing that to Zarkava? I can’t.
Due to injury Bosra Sham hadn’t run since winning the 1000 Guineas when she faced Mark Of Esteem. I find it hard to believe that she ran to her best that day after such a long layoff. In terms of ability Bosra Sham & Zarkarva are the two best filly’s I’ve seen ahead of Ouija Board.
In terms of great Arc winners, Zarkarva would certainly make my top ten. For me Peintre Celebre, Montjeu, Sahkee & Helissio would be my top four. Then I’d bracket Zarkarva in with the likes of Suave Dancer, Lammtarra, Sinndar, Dalakahni & Dylan Thomas.
Hopefully the Aga Khan decides to keep Zarkarva in training as it would be wonderful to watch her run as a 4yo. I doubt it will happen though.
All about opinions I know, but hard to believe Dancing Brave doesn’t make your top 10! Who can forget the acceleration he showed to come and win his race, certainly not me!
Perhaps the success of a filly in the Arc will persuade Coolmore in future to actually prepare their best horse for the race, regardless of its sex. Even if Montmarte had have been fit I think the Aga Khan would have only run Zarkava because they knew she had been taken into the hearts of the French. It’s not all about stud values…
Montmarte has been completley forgotten now, no?
I cant wait for him to show up at a race again. Aga Khan has some superb 3yos and Montmarte will hopefully be a brilliant 4yo next year.
Here’s hoping!
Zarkava is better than Ouija Board and Bosra Sham surely? I can’t imagine either of them winning an Arc in any conditions and Bosra Sham was put firmly in her place over a mile by Mark Of Esteem. Can anyone imagine Henry / Raven’s Pass doing that to Zarkava? I can’t.
Due to injury Bosra Sham hadn’t run since winning the 1000 Guineas when she faced Mark Of Esteem. I find it hard to believe that she ran to her best that day after such a long layoff. In terms of ability Bosra Sham & Zarkarva are the two best filly’s I’ve seen ahead of Ouija Board.
In terms of great Arc winners, Zarkarva would certainly make my top ten. For me Peintre Celebre, Montjeu, Sahkee & Helissio would be my top four. Then I’d bracket Zarkarva in with the likes of Suave Dancer, Lammtarra, Sinndar, Dalakahni & Dylan Thomas.
Hopefully the Aga Khan decides to keep Zarkarva in training as it would be wonderful to watch her run as a 4yo. I doubt it will happen though.
All about opinions I know, but hard to believe Dancing Brave doesn’t make your top 10! Who can forget the acceleration he showed to come and win his race, certainly not me!
Dancing Brave gets my vote as the best Arc winner. He had the kryptonite in his turn of foot to take out any other super-horse over 12 furlongs.
1986 was one of those rare years where multiple champions intertwined at the same time. Would Zarkarva have beaten the likes of Sharastani, Bering, Shardari, Tryptych, Acatenango in the same manner as Dancing Brave?
…
Nah!
Zarkava is better than Ouija Board and Bosra Sham surely? I can’t imagine either of them winning an Arc in any conditions and Bosra Sham was put firmly in her place over a mile by Mark Of Esteem. Can anyone imagine Henry / Raven’s Pass doing that to Zarkava? I can’t.
Due to injury Bosra Sham hadn’t run since winning the 1000 Guineas when she faced Mark Of Esteem. I find it hard to believe that she ran to her best that day after such a long layoff. In terms of ability Bosra Sham & Zarkarva are the two best filly’s I’ve seen ahead of Ouija Board.
In terms of great Arc winners, Zarkarva would certainly make my top ten. For me Peintre Celebre, Montjeu, Sahkee & Helissio would be my top four. Then I’d bracket Zarkarva in with the likes of Suave Dancer, Lammtarra, Sinndar, Dalakahni & Dylan Thomas.
Hopefully the Aga Khan decides to keep Zarkarva in training as it would be wonderful to watch her run as a 4yo. I doubt it will happen though.
All about opinions I know, but hard to believe Dancing Brave doesn’t make your top 10! Who can forget the acceleration he showed to come and win his race, certainly not me!
I got into watching racing in 1989 so my list features horses that have won from then on. I forgot to mention that in my post.
Zarkava is better than Ouija Board and Bosra Sham surely? I can’t imagine either of them winning an Arc in any conditions and Bosra Sham was put firmly in her place over a mile by Mark Of Esteem. Can anyone imagine Henry / Raven’s Pass doing that to Zarkava? I can’t.
Due to injury Bosra Sham hadn’t run since winning the 1000 Guineas when she faced Mark Of Esteem. I find it hard to believe that she ran to her best that day after such a long layoff. In terms of ability Bosra Sham & Zarkarva are the two best filly’s I’ve seen ahead of Ouija Board.
In terms of great Arc winners, Zarkarva would certainly make my top ten. For me Peintre Celebre, Montjeu, Sahkee & Helissio would be my top four. Then I’d bracket Zarkarva in with the likes of Suave Dancer, Lammtarra, Sinndar, Dalakahni & Dylan Thomas.
Hopefully the Aga Khan decides to keep Zarkarva in training as it would be wonderful to watch her run as a 4yo. I doubt it will happen though.
All about opinions I know, but hard to believe Dancing Brave doesn’t make your top 10! Who can forget the acceleration he showed to come and win his race, certainly not me!
I got into watching racing in 1989 so my list features horses that have won from then on. I forgot to mention that in my post.
Fair enough then! I remember after Shergar won the Derby I thought wow, but my brother who is older said that Sea Bird was the most impressive he had seen, so people from different age groups will all have different views I suppose.
You are absolutely correct Blue. Younger people have their hero’s and it is difficult forthem to imagine anything beating them.
DOM is a classic example: He has many fans on here who probably couln’t see him getting beat in the Arc and probably still can’t understand it.
It’s like triple Gold Cup winner Best Mate. Those who never saw Arkle can’t imagine how he could possibly beat their hero withought breaking out of a canter. The truth is the older members cringe at the thought of anyone being so naive, but one must make allowances.
Every so often we get the chance to see gods of racing like Sea Bird II and Arkle and you can go half a centuary and never come across another horse you could stand up and say was or is better.
Quite simply the doubters are those who never saw them run live or on TV at the time.
The smart guys will say there is no way of telling but that to me is nonsense. Racing is full of good judges who are realists who will tell you without batting an eyelid that the two horses in question were virtually unbeatable and their mnames roll of their tongues immediately.
I am a realist and I am biting my toungue on Zarkava. I said months ago she was different class than anything seen out this season and she proved me right.
Would she have given Mill Reef 8 lengths of a start turning for home? I doubt it very much!! Is she as complete a horse as Sea Bird II? Hardly!!!
Zarakava is a wonderful example of a class horse. How good is she?
Well if the mebers on here are correct and she is to be retired I’m afraid we will never know. She has beaten all before her with ease most of which were chicken feed. Now she has won the Arc against a pretty normal bunch of grade 1 colts…..I think she is very very good and perhaps she is better tha BS OB etc but I’m afraid we will never know. There simply isn’t enough proof to go on IMO.
Fists
You must be sober or feeling unwell as the last bit of your post showed restraint and reasoning
With regard to Arkle and "youngsters" not quite appreciating how good he was, do you think the same could be levelled at "Arkleists" with regards to say Golden Miller ?
We/you really have to stop following these bookies who ignore form SOF/YOUZ (well done Bullwark for sticking to your guns). They deliberatly shorten up O’Brien’s depsite what the form book says time and time again.
Actually had Vision D’Etat as my main bet in the race Fists, and Youmzain and Ask as safetys, and made a considerable loss overall. Congratulations on Zarkava, I was never that impressed with any of her pre arc wins, as they all looked very good but not anything exceptional to me, her arc on sunday was exceptional though and she is without a shadow of a doubt the best filly I have ever seen.
Ouija Board beat a ring rusty electrocutionist and david junior at ascot, and the 2006 manduro that she beat wasnt the 2007 manduro. Zarkava beat horses that were fired up and at the top of their game in the biggest race of the year. Youmzain, Soldier Of Fortune and Vision d’Etat were all at the top of their game and had targetted the arc specifically, and where I think they may have wanted it softer, it would be hard to say that she would not still have won on those conditions. Zarkava and Vision D’Etat came out of the pack at the exact same time right beside each other and the difference in speed was clear to see.
I think it is inevitavle that she will be retired, what could she prove by staying on another year, the only time I could see her being given a serious challenge is possibly in next years arc, if that came up soft, and its not really worth keeping her on training for another year, the only other possible thing that may get her beat is training off and that isnt really something any one would wish for. Shes done (probably more than) what she was bred to do, realistically cant really do any more, so why shouldnt she get retired IMO.
This years opposition were not that weak IMO, I think Youmzain would have definitely been placed in at least the last 4 arcs, maybe even more than that, so the form is good IMO. If she isnt a 130 horse she’s close to it.
– Sea Bird came from two off the rail, turning from home ( lobbing along on the bridle) and when Glennon pressed the button… whoosh ! It was all over in the blink of an eye.
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