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Lovely strong pace for Rewilding there, Aiden! Sheikh Mo sends his thanks.
I never thought ‘pace’ horses need a brutal gallop….but what do I know.
If anyone can explain the logic of deploying one for SYT, I’d be greatful.The proximity of the 66/1 Sri Putra in 3rd gives a guide to the worth of the form as a whole, and I can’t ever see Rewilding being a threat to Workforce, either.
To be fair, Reet, Sri Putra looked magnificent and may well have run the race of his life there. Don’t forget, either, that this was in no way Rewildings favoured trip. He’ll be a major threat in the Arc if kept fresh and on decent ground IMO, and a live threat to Workforce.
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Hear what you’re saying OTS, but Rewilding was favoured by the very strong pace, and a fully fit Workforce would have beaten Sri Putra further, imo, given the same circumstances
Agree that SYT doesn’t need a pacemaker at 10f, but the stable probably needed to know how he’d stay, wih a view to the KG and the Arc.- Total Posts 17716
SYT stays pretty well if ridden properly,and if one wants to be selective can you remember Workforce getting beaten about 18 lengths in last years KG? Is that his best run, of course not.
If So You Think got beaten by Rewilding, what on earth will Workforce do to him?
He won’t run in the King George, that’s where Nick will run, but I’d imagine that Sandown, York and Leopardstown will be the next targets. I thought they might run him at Goodwood but that’d be stallion suicide for either him or Canford. He’s not a superstar and never will be.
Then again, if they want to protect his stud fee then in a day or two it’ll emerge that he’s come out of the Ascot race with an injury that cost him victory and will have to be retired. And only a fool will believe it.
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Bungarra
SYT "stays pretty well", yet wins his races on faster Australian turf and much sharper tracks with a burst of speed?
I think not, and odious comparisons with a Workforce that ran 2st below his best hardly justify the horse not lasting home yesterday.- Total Posts 17716
If you genuinely knew anything about racing reet hard you would know the horse was slaughtered! You make selective comments that suit you,you previously judged SYT on his M C performance over 2 miles,not his Group 1 wins.What would you have said if SYT was beaten 18 lengths,yes i can imagine:) Thats the difference between us i know Workforce was not at his best that day.
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Reet Hard in further to your assumptions that it is tougher and that the Australian horses havn’t the stamina to cope with English racing.Yeats,Double Trigger,Septimus oh and the list goes on and on,finished well down the track! So am i to assume that they didn’t have the stamina to cope with Flemington or Australian racing or that they were sub standard? No it is hard to travel to the other side of the world and be at your best on the day!
Right, but the difference is that Aidan sends his horses over about 5 days before the race. So You Think, Haradasun, Starspangledbanner and Starcraft were brought over months before their debuts.
I really don’t understand what there is to discuss. As mooted by several people and despite the ridiculously skinny odds, and contrary to the usual PR bullcrap spouted by Aidan, So You Think is not a superstar and will not get anywhere near Workforce over 10 furlongs. The Eclipse will essentially be a stroll in the park. Planteur was clearly not at his best and it’ll be interesting to see if he can put his poor run behind him at Sandown, should he turn up. I’d imagine he will since there’s nothing for him in France for the rest of the season.
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Right, but the difference is that Aidan sends his horses over about 5 days before the race. So You Think, Haradasun, Starspangledbanner and Starcraft were brought over months before their debuts.
I really don’t understand what there is to discuss. As mooted by several people and despite the ridiculously skinny odds, and contrary to the usual PR bullcrap spouted by Aidan, So You Think is not a superstar and will not get anywhere near Workforce over 10 furlongs. The Eclipse will essentially be a stroll in the park. Planteur was clearly not at his best and it’ll be interesting to see if he can put his poor run behind him at Sandown, should he turn up. I’d imagine he will since there’s nothing for him in France for the rest of the season.
Firstly the Aussie sprinters arrive in England about 8 to 14 days prior and reet hard goes on about failures in the Golden Jubilee when Choiser has won it and Takeover Target placed,but reet hard only mentions the horse who failed and questions the stamina of Aussie horses.Also wrong the o’brien horses do not come 5 days before as Australia has strict quarantine laws,so it is actually weeks rather than days.Talk sense! wont get anywhere near Workforce:):):) you have got to be kidding:):):()
Firstly the Aussie sprinters arrive in England about 8 to 14 days prior and reet hard goes on about failures in the Golden Jubilee when Choiser has won it and Takeover Target placed,but reet hard only mentions the horse who failed and questions the stamina of Aussie horses.Also wrong the o’brien horses do not come 5 days before as Australia has strict quarantine laws,so it is actually weeks rather than days.Talk sense! wont get anywhere near Workforce:):):) you have got to be kidding:):):()
bungarra you don’t know how to play this game, I will teach you.
Septimus was a plodder not a bulls roar near Aussie G1 stayers, 3rd last place in the Melbourne Cup with only his 2 english stablemates Honolulu and Alessandro Volta behind him. Yeats? He would’ve made a decent hurdler in Aust zero turn of foot but enough plodding 4000m form to be competitive over the jumps down under. Vinnie Roe got his jaw cracked so hard by Makybe Diva the first time I’m surprised that came back for more thrashings a 2nd and 3rd time. What about Oscar Schindler ha ha what a waste of time that was. Double Trigger dead last hmmm what on earth were they thinking there. Grey Swallow had what 2 or 3 G1 runs in Australia did he beat a runner home in any of them? Geordieland down the track, useless. Profound Beauty got flogged but step her down a few grades and she’d probably make a really nice country cups horse in Australia.
And don’t even get me started on their sprinters. The world championships for sprints are held at Flemington not Royal Ascot or Sha Tin. They don’t travel any internationals for the best sprint races in the world because they know the Aussies would cane their backsides!!!
I laugh at anyone thinks the Cox Plate is in any way shape or form an inferior race to the Prince of Wales or Eclipse. Some of you poms seriously have zero clue about how good aussie racing is, do yourself a favour take off your patriotic blinkers and you might enlighten yourselves a bit! (but then again ignorance is bliss so maybe not….)
I’ll raise my hand straight away – I’m an Aussie. I watched the race the other night (as I do will ALL races at the RA week for the past 7 years) and I seriously cannot believe some of the criticism of the HORSE, So You Think.
Yes, European racing at 1600m – 2400m has far more depth than Australian racing so this European adventure was always going to be tough. Our middle distnace ranks have been pretty average for a few years now. SYT has been arguably our best horse for 8 years (since Northerly) some say since Might & Power or Kingston Town.
What Team Coolmore asked SYT to do the other day was insane IMO. Firstly a pace maker. Why? This horse doesn’t need nor want one, it doesn’t suit his racing style. The pacemaker misses the start, fantastic, is the sooled up and fires up SYT – crazy stuff. The jockey (R.Moore) then takes off at the top of the straight, again crazy. This played right into the winner’s hands whom I believe is better known as a 2400m horse?
I’m not saying the better horse on the day didn’t win, Rewilding is a deserved winner & Frankie road a top class race (why does he butcher them when in Oz??).
No, So You Think isn’t the best horse since Shergar but he is a very good horse, I hope that you all get to see that. I truly believe that he will beat Workforce over 2000m. 2400m is another story…
By the way Zarkava (great name by the way), so you believe that SYT had no excuses but Planteur was clearly "off his game". C’mon mate. How do you think he would have coped with the ride SYT had?? He had a much cheaper ride and was "tucked up in bed" before "Neighbours" whilst SYT was toughing it out at the end of the race.
Should be a great European season with the likes of WF, SNA, Rewilding, Snow Fairy, SYT & of course the 3 yos.
I just hope that Coolmore wake up to themselves and run this boy right and I ask you all to see through the hype, it’s not the horse’s fault, just greedy stud owners. I have no doubt that you will all be impressed when you can see what he really can do.
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Looks like you are the new villain AIC
And 1600-2400 Marbine,dont sell us so short old Zipping wouldve ran 3rd in the Prince of Wales and we have had better middle distance horses than him,remember mate middle distance is a forte not taken on as yet in each others back yard,remember that was why we got 25’s about Choiser 1st up because of mistaken opinions. And i would back More Joyous to beat Canford Cliffs and Goldikova. More Joyous 18 starts 2 failures the only 2 times she has raced on a heavy track,her only other unplaced run was 5th beaten 4 and half lengths behind SYT in the Cox Plate 10f a tad too far for her,that leaves another 15 starts for 14 wins! Multiple Group 1 winner has won Group races from 6f to a mile.So if you can win group sprints in Australia but your best distance is a mile,you will measure up anywhere in the world!I just hope that Coolmore wake up to themselves and run this boy right and I ask you all to see through the hype, it’s not the horse’s fault, just greedy stud owners. I have no doubt that you will all be impressed when you can see what he really can do.
Spot on marbine. (I’m aussie too by the way)
SYT is a sensational galloper but he is not an invincible machine, no horse is. Dancing Brave got beat, Workforce got beat, they all get beat if the race is run a certain way.
I can empathise with those who dislike hype. But I also think assessing SYT’s run against Planteur’s run is probably the best way to judge how good SYT really is. It’s too convenient to say Planteur was off his game, I think he just got smashed by a champion who got left a sitting duck by a piss poor ride and unbelievably poor stable tactics. I think SYT beats Planteur every day of the week whatever way you run the race, pacemaker or not, undulating or flat, right handed or left. Therefore if Planteur is in the top 2 or 3 Euro middle distance gallopers then SYT should be rated, all things equal and horse ridden well, probably Europe’s best. BUT I admit he has to prove it now. And I really think he will.
But if they want to turn it into a stamina test and take turn of foot out of the equation, then they are a chance to beat him again. But is stamina the ONLY test of a champion? What about acceleration off medium run races? Is not versatility one of the marks of a champion? Or do european fans only care about the horse with the most stamina in hot pace events that are run uphill?
Remember the track was good to soft, not firm, and they broke the track record. On a track bordering on soft? Farcical. It’s almost as if the whole race was run to get SYT beaten. Sit him in the death on a breakneck speed and go early on an uphill climb? Suicide for any horse with any sort of brilliance, only suitable for staying types, and that is NOT a true test of one’s horse’s all round ability over the other.
I’m looking forward to his next race. This result gutted me and I’m looking at this like us vs them now. Very determined and hopeful that he can bounce back and show his champion qualities. I still very much believe he is the best middle distance horse in the world.
Looks like you are the new villain AIC
And 1600-2400 Marbine,dont sell us so short old Zipping wouldve ran 3rd in the Prince of Wales and we have had better middle distance horses than himHa ha new villain? I hope not, I love english racing, they have many great middle distance gallopers and their jumps carnivals are a lot of fun.
On another note, I reckon Might and Power would’ve won the Prince of Wales the way it was run. His best distance was 2400 and he would’ve been very strong on the line. But I don’t rate M&P as a better 2000m horse than SYT. Better 2400 yes.
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Jeez, you Aussies are so defensive, it’s unreal.
Let’s get a couple of things straight, I’ve never said SYT isn’t a great Champion, and I’ve never said that Oz sprinters aren’t altogether better than ours.
All I have ever said, in effect, is that our courses – because of configuration, climate, different turf etc, – pose an appreciably stiffer test of stamina than yours. (Only this week, I’ve seen your ‘fast ground’ described as like concrete compared to ours, by someone with experience of both). That’s not to question the speed, guts or class, of any of your horses, just their ability to stay as far in this country.
Of course horses like Yeats and Double Trigger failed in your country, that too had nothing to do with class, Both were multiple Gold Cup winners who needed a stiff 2.5 miles to bring out the best in them, and they would have had to go at least 3 times round Flemington to get anything like a similar test. Likewise your sprinters, superior though they are, generally don’t stay as far in this country as they do at home, that’s undeniable, to all but the myopic xenophobe, and picking and choosing the odd exception here and there won’t change what’s a pretty general and established picture.
No slight on SYT, or your horses generally – he’s just unlikely to stay 12f in this part of the world, and I doubt his connections will even attempt it..
.I can empathise with those who dislike hype. But I also think assessing SYT’s run against Planteur’s run is probably the best way to judge how good SYT really is. It’s too convenient to say Planteur was off his game, I think he just got smashed by a champion who got left a sitting duck by a piss poor ride and unbelievably poor stable tactics. I think SYT beats Planteur every day of the week whatever way you run the race, pacemaker or not, undulating or flat, right handed or left. Therefore if Planteur is in the top 2 or 3 Euro middle distance gallopers then SYT should be rated, all things equal and horse ridden well, probably Europe’s best. BUT I admit he has to prove it now. And I really think he will.
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.You may well be right about SYT being a superstar. I can well accept that we may not have seen the best of him at Ascot. But you have to be realistic about the form of the race. Cherry-picking which horses in the race behind him to praise his performance might mislead.
Where spending my own money on betting is concerned, I have found it a worthwhile policy to assess race performances on “how bad does that make the horse look” rather than on “how good does that make the horse look”. Take the most pessimistic look at the form, because you can at least rely on that, rather than basing it on horses who might have run below form.
Consider Sri Putra who was beaten 6L by SYT. His last few races were:
Beaten 3.25L by Jet Away at levels
Beaten 4L by Snow Fairy giving her 7lb – weight for age and sex.
Beaten 8L by Twice Over at levels
Beaten 2.5L by Indian Days at levels
Beaten 0.5L by Twice Over at levels
Beaten 30L by Stotsfold giving 3lbs (ignore ‘cos obviously not his real form)
Beating Tranquil Tiger by 1L receiving 3lbsThat gives a realistic view of how good Sri Putra is.
I am not saying that Sri Putra is a bad horse, he is clearly a good one. As a five year old, his form might be a bit better this year than previously but not by much. Sri Putra at his best being beaten 6L by SYT does not make SYT a superstar.
I think we should judge Rewilding and SYT on the beating they gave Sri Putra, or say that the form lines in that race were so disparate that you can’t judge the form level at all.
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