- This topic has 97 replies, 42 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 6 months ago by
.
- Posts
From a newbie, so please don’t flame me
: But I didn’t quite understand that remark in commentary either. Nor have I been able to quite see what BT’s purpose has been in most of Frankel’s races. I’d have concluded that he was just there as something of a comfort blanket for Frankel tbh, except for the fact that Sir Henry was certainly talking in great detail to the two jockeys pre-race yesterday. I certainly have never seen any tactics that could be unethical or detrimental to any other runners though.Actually one of the most touching moments for me yesterday was when the two horses walked back together and TQ reached over to pat Bullet Train. Nice to see the affection and appreciation for his being with Frankel every step of the way – for whatever reason.
From a newbie, so please don’t flame me
: But I didn’t quite understand that remark in commentary either. Nor have I been able to quite see what BT’s purpose has been in most of Frankel’s races. I’d have concluded that he was just there as something of a comfort blanket for Frankel tbh, except for the fact that Sir Henry was certainly talking in great detail to the two jockeys pre-race yesterday. I certainly have never seen any tactics that could be unethical or detrimental to any other runners though.Actually one of the most touching moments for me yesterday was when the two horses walked back together and TQ reached over to pat Bullet Train. Nice to see the affection and appreciation for his being with Frankel every step of the way – for whatever reason.
Yes it was nice to see Bullet Train and Ian Mongen sharing some of the glory, they deserve it.
A mate in the race, or a pacemaker, can have several roles, not just blazing off in front. He can instead control the pace by getting to the front then slowing down, and he can eyeball a front-runner and stop the jockey having it all his own way. I think that’s what the commentator was referring to yesterday, by racing alongside Cirrus he made it a bit harder for Peslier to have complete control of the pace.
Controlling the pace is OK I think, if another jockey doesn’t like it he can do something about it; interfering with another runner for the express purpose of unsettling him but without intent to benefit from it smells a bit wrong.
A mate in the race, or a pacemaker, can have several roles, not just blazing off in front. He can instead control the pace by getting to the front then slowing down, and he can eyeball a front-runner and stop the jockey having it all his own way. I think that’s what the commentator was referring to yesterday, by racing alongside Cirrus he made it a bit harder for Peslier to have complete control of the pace.
Controlling the pace is OK I think, if another jockey doesn’t like it he can do something about it; interfering with another runner for the express purpose of unsettling him but without intent to benefit from it smells a bit wrong.
I think you’re right to suggest that the pacemaker can be useful in a number of ways. I guess the most obvious use is to 1) Not let the race become a tactical crawl and sprint, and 2) When the pacemaker gets outpaced its time for the main protaganist to hit the gas.
I am reminded of Frankel’s ‘pacemaking’ for Rerouted in last year’s Guineas (think it was meant to be the other way round but someone forgot to tell the great horse)!
To be honest, I did find something slightly unedifying in Bullet Train being tugged back when Frankel missed the break. It strikes me as though that’s not really running on one’s (albeit limited) merits is it? Yesterday was all about Frankel for sure, but it would be interesting to hear the response had such tactics taken place in a lesser event.
Mike
Yesterday was all about Frankel for sure, but it would be interesting to hear the response had such tactics taken place in a lesser event.
Mike
Yes, or if it came from Ballydoyle
"betlarge":2zuhb7i8 wrote: I am reminded of Frankel’s ‘pacemaking’ for Rerouted in last year’s Guineas (think it was meant to be the other way round but someone forgot to tell the great horse)!
True
To be honest, I did find something slightly unedifying in Bullet Train being tugged back when Frankel missed the break. It strikes me as though that’s not really running on one’s (albeit limited) merits is it? Yesterday was all about Frankel for sure, but it would be interesting to hear the response had such tactics taken place in a lesser event.
Mike
Thats a good point actually, as far as BT’s own race goes. Fortunately it wasn’t something that was capable of disadvantaging any other runners, and CDA just cracked on in front until BT joined him a little later. I also don’t know whether IM consciously intended to slow down or whether he was simply puzzled as to whence Frankel had disappeared. I know I was!
This pacemaker argument, usually espoused by drunk, ill-informed Australians (
) holds no water.Why would a pacemaker, no matter whose, make a difference to a supposedly faster horse in any race ?
If a horse is good, fast enough, or indeed, brave and determined enough, he will win said race, pacemaker or no pacemaker. To suggest Frankel’s chances of winning were lessened without the use of a pacemaker is sheer balderdash. The bottom line is that in order to beat Frankel, the other horses still had to finish ahead of him. None did !
I didn’t notice any pacemaker for Frankel in his first Sussex Stakes win.
Oh sorry, my mistake; there was…his name was Canford Cliffs !
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
http://www.theirishfield.ie/site/articl … 2357&cid=5
Quite good article on the pros and cons.
I think Ezzoud might well be close to the mark with his ‘comfort blanket’ theory. I believe the horses always worked together at home. I wonder if BT had the neighboring box to Frankel in the yard?
Some racehorses like a goat or a donkey around (though I suppose to Frankel, everything was a goat or a donkey
)I don’t know if Frankel was boxed near Bullet Train but I did read the other day that when Frankel was promoted to a better box in the part of the yard reserved for the elite horses, he failed to settle into it and had to be returned to his old, ordinary quarters.
Maybe as he trained so intensively with BT – learning to lie up with him and not go tanking past until asked, it helped to be able to carry that familiar routine into the race.(though I suppose to Frankel, everything was a goat or a donkey
)Thats no way to talk about Excelebration
Its a dull Monday morning so I’ll poke the hornets nest …
Sea The Stars never needed a pacemaker, or a comfort blanket, or a lip chain in the parade ring, or Yarmi to help him in the stalls.
Mick Kinane was diplomatic on Saturday when asked about Sea The Stars, but you can see in the back of his mind he wonders.
Its a dull Monday morning so I’ll poke the hornets nest …
Sea The Stars never needed a pacemaker, or a comfort blanket, or a lip chain in the parade ring, or Yarmi to help him in the stalls.
Mick Kinane was diplomatic on Saturday when asked about Sea The Stars, but you can see in the back of his mind he wonders.
I’ll poke it back – Sea the Stars needed decent ground.
Not sure Kinane was being diplomatic – rather think he knew the answer. If he didn’t 32,000 people could have givenb him a clue.
Anyway, whoever said Frankel was straightforward? That’s the genius of Sir Hen.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Hmm, he won his maiden on quite soft ground then was never asked to run on it again. I don’t think his race programme was dictated by the ground as it seemed to contain the top races and it happened that summer was quite dry.
He was withdrawn from Irish Derby due to soft ground Aji. It was always a prerequisite.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Soft ground in Ireland defies description.Remember Camelot struggling to win the Irish Derby on "soft" ground at the Curragh this year?May in fact have ruined his season.John Oxx is a very wise man.
I find it difficult to believe that a Galileo could be so intractable. A Montjeu yes but a Galileo? Perhaps with a more competent trainer…? OK so it was the horse who was the problem.Needed this , needed that, could not come round Tattenham corner.Could not be restrained.Blah blah blah. To me he looked perfectly normal in his first race as a tyo when he beat Nathanial.Did somebody screw things up after that race? Jim Bolger would have sorted him out in no time.He does not tolerate showboating.From horses,or owners,or trainers.
: But I didn’t quite understand that remark in commentary either. Nor have I been able to quite see what BT’s purpose has been in most of Frankel’s races. I’d have concluded that he was just there as something of a comfort blanket for Frankel tbh, except for the fact that Sir Henry was certainly talking in great detail to the two jockeys pre-race yesterday. I certainly have never seen any tactics that could be unethical or detrimental to any other runners though.
) holds no water.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.