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I work with many Iranians from the classes you list above. Although labelled Muslim they consider themselves Persian and are amongst the smartest, most articulate, educated and open minded people you’ll meet anywhere.
Well you can let them know that this is one observer who cannot wait to visit their country when things are a little more settled.
I can agree with most of the views Paul expressed here (always informative and well thought through), especially his first post, but disagree entirely with his comment:-
What gives any of us the right to say our moral standpoint is correct and others are wrong?
Perhaps the same point was made to William Wilberforce.
I know where you’re "coming from" (hate that phrase, but you know where I’m coming from) I think.
But, when some organisation/religion talks utter bollocks, it is immoral of others to give them equal credence.Do you know the preachings of every single Iman or do you just quote the preachings of Iman’s reported in the media in the UK?
But again, when has any iman anywhere (and we have to assume that the leaders do represent the majority view) genuinely stood up and professed liberal views? If a significant leader did, then it would certainly be widely reported…but never happens
Even the supposedly moderate "to be knighted" leader of the british muslims declared his support for the murder of a novelist…
Lets get this into perspective….it is the actual murder of a NOVELIST. Not a killer or a paedophile…a writer….
This is a very very extreme line to take. And yet weve almost accepted it….
Every Brit in the UK who values our way of life should read this.
With Muslims establishing their own schools, one wonders how their
kids will acquire our values and be able to successfully integrate into
our society.
This incident happened in London ..
The Uncomfortable Definition of an Infidel….
FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the UK
Last month I attended my annual training session for maintaining
my security clearance in the prison service.
There was a presentation by three speakers from the Roman
Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained their beliefs
I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say
about the basics of
Islam, complete with video.
After the presentations, question time. I directed my question to
the Imam and asked:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I understand that most Imams and
clerics of Islam have declared a Holy War against the infidels of the
world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all
Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that’s the case,
can you give me the definition of an infidel?’
There was no disagreement with my statement and, without
hesitation he replied, ‘Non-believers!’I responded, ‘So let me make sure I have this straight. All
followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not a
follower of Allah, so they can have a place in heaven. Is that
correct?’
The expression on his face changed from one of authority to that
of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the biscuit
tin.’He sheepishly replied, ‘Yes.’
I then stated, ‘Well, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope
Benedict commanding all Catholics to kill Muslims, or the Archbishop of
Canterbury ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to
guarantee them a place in heaven!’
The Imam was speechless!
I continued, ‘I also have a problem with being your ‘friend’ when
you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let
me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you
to kill me in order for you to go to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me
to love you because He will take me to heaven and He wants you to be
there with me?’
You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam remained speechless.Needless to say, the organizers of the Diversification seminar
were not happy with this way of exposing the truth about the Muslims’
beliefs.Within twenty years, ie. 2029, there will be enough Muslim voters
in the UK to elect a government of their choice, complete with Sharia
law.
Everyone in the U.K. should be required to read this, but with the
current political paralysis, tolerant justice system, liberal media and
P.C.madness, there is no way this will be widely publicised.Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts.
John Harrison MBE. MIDScWhere we are in terms of Muslim fundamentalism is probably not entirely unconnected to the Salman Rushdie affair. However, attempts to demonise all muslims by suggesting that they ALL hold extreme,intolerant and potentially dangerous views are without doubt bigoted and as for sick (I assume jokes) suggesting how somebody died this is crass ignorance which serves to show where the bigotry really comes from.
I agree to the right to march,protest etc but in this case absolutely not in Wooton Bassett as any civilised person regardless of their views knows that this would be highly disrespectful and that a protest does not need to be made there in order to make a point about stopping the war,killing of civilians etc.
If it goes ahead I also set aside the usual suspects civil liberty concerns to agree that finding out who would be inclined to turn up to this particular protest would be highly useful info for the security services on the day itself and we can only hope they use the information effectively as previous terrorist incidents suggest that they don’t always.
Little bit of scaremongering in there Rod, don’t you think?
It uses the spectre of an increasing Muslim population, to promote the myth that we could end-up with Sharia Law in the UK in the next 30 years.
This projection contains the massive assumption that every Muslim of voting age will want Sharia Law, and that an Islamic Party could ever form a majority government anyway. Simple constituency demographics rules such an eventuality out completely.
The author appears to have consumed certain ‘facts’ and concocted a conspiracy theory out of fresh air, and the whole piece has a faintly ridiculous quality about it.
What is the difference, if any, between the current demonising of Muslims in 2010 and the demonising of Jews in Germany in the early to mid 1930’s?
Do we learn nothing from History?
And before anybody mentions gas chambers and the Holocaust I have been deliberately selective with the dates I quited.
Easy to answer that Paul
Firstly no one is demonising all muslims, but the proportion that believes in sharia and the jihad is particularly high (generally 30%). The proportion that believe in such bigoted beliefs such as subjugation of women and oppression on basis of sexuality and beliefs is much higher still. Certainly a majority…
Why cant we attack those disgusting bigoted intolerant beliefs and vile objectives (and believe me a good proportion of muslims would have the gas chambers open for jews at the drop of a hat) without being branded as neo facists?
that is the pathetic left wing line that any criticism of a minority is automatically racism. What garbage. Should the BNP have the same protection because of "their beliefs"? Should we not attack them?
I agree with Grasshopper over the demographics, but an increasing islamic influence will possibly start to impinge upon our freedoms in years to come
The Religous Hatred Bill was a direct result of Islamic lobbying. We could also see certain cities become islamic enclaves (Blackburn must be close) and local imposition of certain "standards"The other side of the coin is that radical islam has seemingly faded a little in this country and we may drift towards the american model of greater integratio and respect for this country. Certain polls would also suggest that too
and as for sick (I assume jokes) suggesting how somebody died this is crass ignorance which serves to show where the bigotry really comes from.
Oh really? Apart from your waste of space post perhaps you would like to see some examples is islamic bigotry and "where that really comes from"
Lets start with a stoning of a rape victim shall we?
How about a world leading iman (friend of and fully endorsed by ken livingstone) praising Hitler and the exterminatioon camps?
Want the links?
Well here is Qaradawi. promoted as a "liberal" iman by the moron left in this country (although the far lefts vicious antisemitism is pretty nakedly apparent thses days)
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By a strange coincidence I got an email just 1 hour ago. Makes an interesting point if you can be bothered reading it.
————————————–REMEMBER AS YOU READ — IT WAS IN A SPANISH PAPER
Date : Tue, 15 January 2008 14:30:20 -0500
ALL EUROPEAN LIFE DIED IN AUSCHWITZ
The following is a copy of an article written by Spanish writer Sebastian Vilar Rodrigez and published in a Spanish newspaper on 1-15-08. It doesn’t take much imagination to extrapolate the message to the rest of Europe – and possibly to the rest of the world.
=====================================================
ALL EUROPEAN LIFE DIED IN AUSCHWITZ
By Sebastian Vilar RodrigezI walked down the street in Barcelona, and suddenly discovered a terrible truth – Europe died in Auschwitz. We killed six million Jews and replaced them with 20 million Muslims. In Auschwitz we burned a culture, thought, creativity, talent. The contribution of this people is felt in all areas of life: science, art, international trade, and the conscience of the world. These are the people we burned.
And under the pretense of tolerance, and because we wanted to prove to ourselves that we were cured of the disease of racism, we opened our gates to 20 million Muslims, who brought us stupidity and ignorance,
religious extremism and lack of tolerance, crime and poverty, due to an unwillingness to work and support their families with pride.They have blown up our trains and turned our beautiful Spanish cities into the third world, drowning in filth and crime.
Shut up in the apartments they receive free from the government, they plan the murder and destruction of their naive hosts.
And thus, in our misery, we have exchanged culture for fanatical hatred, creative skill for destructive skill, intelligence for backwardness and superstition.
We have exchanged the pursuit of peace of the Jews of Europe and their talent for hoping for a better future for their children, their determined clinging to life because life is holy, for those who pursue death, for people consumed by the desire for death for themselves and others, for our children and theirs.
What a terrible mistake was made by miserable Europe.
A lot of Americans, Australian and Englishmen have become so insulated from reality that they imagine America can suffer defeat without any inconvenience to themselves.
Absolutely No Profiling! Pause a moment, reflect back, and take the following multiple-choice test.
These events are actual events from history. They really happened! Do you remember?HERE’S THE TEST
1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by:
a. Superman
b. Jay Leno
c. Harry Potter
d. A Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 402. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:
a. Olga Corbett
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 403. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:
a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old womend. Muslim male extremists
mostly between the ages of 17 and 404. During the 1980’s a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Swede
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 405. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 406. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old, American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:
a. The Smurfs
b. Davey Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 407. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by:
a. Captain Kidd
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 408. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. The Sundance Kid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 409. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 4010. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
a. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill’s women problemsc. The World Wrestling Federation
d. Muslim male extremistsmostly between the ages of 17 and 40
11. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by:
a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fuddb. TheSupreme Court of Florida
c. Mr Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostlybetween the ages of 17 and 40
12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
a. Enron
b. The Lutheran Church
c. The NFL
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 4013. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
a. Bonnie and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40No, I really don’t see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you? So, to ensure that Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing them, US airport security screeners will no longer be allowed to profile certain people. They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents who are members of the President’s security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, Medal of Honor winners and former Governors like Joe Foss, but leave Muslim Males between the ages 17 and 40 alone lest they be guilty of profiling.
It is too late for Spain and Europe but is it too late for America/Australia/England ? Probably……………….
Little bit of scaremongering in there Rod, don’t you think?
It uses the spectre of an increasing Muslim population, to promote the myth that we could end-up with Sharia Law in the UK in the next 30 years.
This projection contains the massive assumption that every Muslim of voting age will want Sharia Law, and that an Islamic Party could ever form a majority government anyway. Simple constituency demographics rules such an eventuality out completely.
The author appears to have consumed certain ‘facts’ and concocted a conspiracy theory out of fresh air, and the whole piece has a faintly ridiculous quality about it.
Wouldn`t disagree with you Grassy.
The article Roddy has cut and pasted is an internet viral that originated in the US about 4 years back. There are 2 John Harrisons with MBE’s neither of them wrote this. It is a piece of fabricated anti muslim propaganda.
The article attributed to Sebastian Vilar Rodrigez is also a hoax, no Spanish newspaper has ever run this piece.Is there any other religion that wants to take over the world?
No?
Its going to happen!!!
All religions want to take over the world at some point, Christianity spent most of the last 1000 years trying to do just that at the point of a sword / muzzle of a musket. Islam had their go between 800A.D. and 1300A.D. then ran out of steam – LM do you seriously think they are going to give it another go? The combined Muslim countries in the Middle East couldn’t even get the better of the Israelis on their own in 70s and would have even less chance now. the odds of Muslims taking over the world are
1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000/1
or
1000/1 with Billy Hills
12/1 with Bet365"liberal muslims"
Oxymoron i would suggest. So called moderate muslims have views that are a long long way from what the civilised world would describe as liberal (or anyones definition of liberal)
Clive – I think that is unfair on the majority of Musilms.
It is no different than tarring all Christians extremeists because of the extreme views of Stephen Green and Christian Voice.
I know many Musilms and most, if not all of them, condem the extreme interpretaions of the faith
Paul, I agree with you entirely on both accounts, especially as a practicing Christian who believes in free speech.
Is there any other religion that wants to take over the world?
No?
Its going to happen!!!
you, and the rest of us, will be long gone. Otherwise perhaps you and others would like to tell us what you personally are doing to try to stop it here? Have you joined the English Defence League?
I suggest there is more to worry about from viral pandemics, cancer, booze, fags and obesity than being overly concerned about some other religion taking over the world.
As mentioned above, people forget that the Christian faith already took over half of it and got rid of millions of good people in the process whilst shoving a large cross in their faces for good measure. Perhaps the spirits of their dead are getting their own back on us….
…I strongly disagree with any move to stop this march, if it ever intended to take place. Ironically they will be doing a very British thing by exercising their right to peaceful protest.
What I would like to see but fear it will never happen, is a strong counter demonstration by Muslims who are willing to show support for Britain and the dangerous work our troops are doing, but as in the 70’s when pro-IRA demonstrations took place in London, and so many whinged and moaned about how offensive they were, there was no counter balance from the large London Irish community as far as I can recall, other than the valiant efforts of the Belfast Women’s Peace Movement.
Complacency combined with veiled support is the enemy of us all.
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