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Not sure it’s helpful or correct to mention Iran in the same breath as Al Qeada, clivexx. AQ and it’s philosophy derives from a very strict interpretation of Sunni Islam, whereas Iran is a Shia theocracy, and – perversely – a candidate target for AQ.
If unabashed criticism of Islam is not bigotry then what is?
Thats out of order
It is based on facts. When an iman anywhere stands up and says he endorse equal rights for women, no oppression of gays, dialogue with jews, total freedom of speech, freedom to change religion and so on…then i will believe there is a liberal movement within islam. At the moment its invisible (although in sufism may exist)
Not sure it’s helpful or correct to mention Iran in the same breath as Al Qeada, clivexx. AQ and it’s philosophy derives from a very strict interpretation of Sunni Islam, whereas Iran is a Shia theocracy, and – perversely – a candidate target for
AQ hates Shias almosta as much as Jews. Agree on that point, but both examples are kickbacks against authoritarian regimes or idealogies
Should also remember that Iran is unique within the middle east and is not necessarily a catalyst for change elsewhere
Sorry for not sticking to the subject in hand, but if people want to discuss ‘Muslim protest marches’, dont Sky News have a website?? Last time I checked, they did. So how does a subject, that has NO bearing on horse-racing, end up on the Racing Forum?? Is it extra, unnecessery publicity for this extremist nutcase??? Either way, the fact that its ended up on these pages, beggars belief.
I find Iran an intriguing place, I really do.
Is it really unique in the Middle East? For all that it is gives the appearance of theocracy, it is essentially a parliamentary democracy, and as a country it is much closer to the Israeli model, than it is to the absolute monarchy of Saudi Arabia, imo.
Indeed, under only marginally different circumstances, I’d go so far as to say that Iran should be the first country we in the West seek to partner with in the Middle East. It has an intellectual class, an educated and liberal middle class, freedom of religion (despite its status as an Islamic Republic), and a functioning democracy….albeit there are questions to be asked about the recent elections.
But sweep away the rhetoric, and there seems to be sufficient common ground for a sensible debate to be initiated. I think the olive-branch profered by Obama was based on similar thinking; it’s such a shame that the government of Iran chose not to grasp it – perhaps a reflection of their limited worldview and aspirations?
Sorry for not sticking to the subject in hand, but if people want to discuss ‘Muslim protest marches’, dont Sky News have a website?? Last time I checked, they did. So how does a subject, that has NO bearing on horse-racing, end up on the Racing Forum?? Is it extra, unnecessery publicity for this extremist nutcase??? Either way, the fact that its ended up on these pages, beggars belief.
This is the Lounge, Aido. All manner of stuff is discussed in here, from geopolitics, to how best to mend the tear in Clivexx’s bird, Hot Cherry.
Sorry for not sticking to the subject in hand, but if people want to discuss ‘Muslim protest marches’, dont Sky News have a website?? Last time I checked, they did. So how does a subject, that has NO bearing on horse-racing, end up on the Racing Forum?? Is it extra, unnecessery publicity for this extremist nutcase??? Either way, the fact that its ended up on these pages, beggars belief.
Suggest you check out what the various sections of this forum are for before you start complaining.
If you don’t like a particular thread then you are under no obligation to participate in it?
Indeed, under only marginally different circumstances, I’d go so far as to say that Iran should be the first country we in the West seek to partner with in the Middle East. It has an intellectual class, an educated and liberal middle class, freedom of religion (despite its status as an Islamic Republic), and a functioning democracy….albeit there are questions to be asked about the recent elections.
Spot on Grasshopper. I work with many Iranians from the classes you list above. Although labelled Muslim they consider themselves Persian and are amongst the smartest, most articulate, educated and open minded people you’ll meet anywhere. The women are stunning. What a pity Clivex would put them in the same barrel as Choudary and his clowns. He’s wrong to do so.
I think the olive-branch profered by Obama was based on similar thinking; it’s such a shame that the government of Iran chose not to grasp it – perhaps a reflection of their limited worldview and aspirations?
But was never going to be grasped was it? Too blatant i felt and demonstarted a lack of understanding of who they were dealing with. The rest is correct though. altough the elections are so restricted that they are probably closer to Saudi than Israel.
What a pity Clivex would put them in the same barrel as Choudary and his clowns. He’s wrong to do so
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You have missed the point…
If unabashed criticism of Islam is not bigotry then what is?
Thats out of order
Hopefully we know each other well enough to know my comment wasn’t personal
It is based on facts. When an iman anywhere stands up and says he endorse equal rights for women, no oppression of gays, dialogue with jews, total freedom of speech, freedom to change religion and so on…then i will believe there is a liberal movement within islam. At the moment its invisible (although in sufism may exist)
Facts – what facts?
Do you know the preachings of every single Iman or do you just quote the preachings of Iman’s reported in the media in the UK?
I am not arguing the teachings of the extreme Muslim factions are right, far from it – they are wrong.
However it is not right to tar every Muslim with the same brush.
In the same way it is wrong to believe all Jews have the same beliefs as the ultra-Orthodox adherents, or that all Christians have the same beliefs as the "religious right" neo-cons in the USA.
Yet it is always the extremists who make the headlines and when you have leaders in the west like Bush and Bliar – both of whom play the "God card" then isn’t is great to have an Islamist bogeymaan to fit into their perverse belief?
Oxymoron i would suggest. So called moderate muslims have views that are a long long way from what the civilised world would describe as liberal (or anyones definition of liberal)
Spot on Grasshopper. I work with many Iranians from the classes you list above. Although labelled Muslim they consider themselves Persian and are amongst the smartest, most articulate, educated and open minded people you’ll meet anywhere. The women are stunning. What a pity Clivex would put them in the same barrel as Choudary and his clowns. He’s wrong to do so.
What point am I missing Clivex?
Sadly he died since that but i would have loved to see his answers to this current disaster.
May i ask how? Flying a plane ?
That’s a bit out of order. Your sectarian stereo types shouldn’t be aimed at someones friend who passed on, just because of his religion.
Sorry all, I was just under the misguided impression that Racingforum would be a place to discuss Horse-Racing. How naive of me, I apologise profoundly.
The Muslim Countries have very poor education standards…..i would say 3/5 of Afghan’s population cant even read.
That has little to do with Islam and a great deal to do with poverty.
Having to scrtach a living as a goatherd in some remote valley of northern Afghanistan does not exactly concentrate the mind on ensuring a decent education for your offspring: there’s the food and firewood to get in son, let’s hope we survive the winter
About 20% of the world’s population are illiterate, sadly
About 20% of the world’s population are illiterate, sadly
Thats in line with the forum i think
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