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I don’t whether this is common knowledge which had just passed me by but at Stratford yesterday I was advised that there are two trading rooms on course which in-running traders pay £150 a meeting to use. They have fast broadband and crucially show a live feed without the time delay you get with off-course feeds giving the in-running traders that crucial edge.
I’m told there would have been around 40 traders at the course last night and presumably other courses are offering this service as well.
This certainly sounds like a useful source of extra income for racecourses and presumably a good source of income for the traders as well if they’re willing to pay £150 a meeting.
It happens at the majority of meetings at virtually every course – I know of one course where there are five such rooms in use at every meeting.
It is good money for the courses as they have a steady income stream from boxes which they may otherwise struggle to sell.
Clearly the bookies are not overly happy and some, legitimate, questions have been asked about the status of these players, not least the age old question are they there in the course of their business?
The one mystery to me is what advantage do they have from actually being on course – in most cases the windows and doors are blacked out so they cannot view the racing "live" as it were.
Tuffers, at Southwell, the "in-running baldies" have a team of six and rent one or two conference rooms in the Members for between £300 and £500 per day. No-one is precisely sure how much – Arena say different things depending on who is asking. And on-course bookmakers
have
asked.
The Team Leader has men on step ladders stationed at intervals down the home straight. The step ladders remain there after each race. They’ve become landmarks: I’ve often joked that a skint DIY enthusiast can save himself a few quid by pinching one of them from under the bushes when the spotters are having a pow wow next to the kids playground.
Spotters are equipped with top quality telecommunication equipment and make rapid recommendations (back, lay etc) at each point of a race. The Team Leader in the conference room acts on their advice using a high speed broadband feed direct into a betting exchange.
If you’re messing about with In-Running betting using the ATR snail feed, you have absolutely no chance against these chaps, I would imagine.
Why are the windows blacked out Paul?
Have you
seen
those in-running traders?
They watch a live video feed so they don’t need to see the light of day and blacking out the windows probably helps them see their computer screens.
In answer to Paul’s question, the live feed when you are on course doesn’t need to be transmitted by satellite and it is that fractional timing difference which gives them their edge.
Why are the windows blacked out Paul?
A combination of what Tuffers said plus a lot of them are secretive.
The trading rooms at Towcester are next to the Press Room and although one or two will chat, most will do their utmost to ignore you, even avoiding any eye contact.
There are one or two I see most days at various courses and we are now on what I would probably describe as grudging nodding terms.
There is one chap who does paddock watching and he is so secretive he keeps his notes covered up like somebody trying to stop somebody peeking in an exam.
A couple have agreed to do, anonymous, interviews but to my knowledge no snapper has ever been allowed to take photos in the trading rooms …. even on offers of cash payments.
Incredible to think these guys are not paying levy. No wonder the game is on its arse.
Looks to me as though traditional bookies days are numbered, or are these traders in their employ?
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highwaysI think bookies will survive. On-course traders will take money off mug punters but I would guess a lot of in-running activity is on-course traders betting against each other which is a zero-sum game at best. Anyone foolish enough to bet large on a delayed feed will lose a lot of money quite quickly and be knocked out of the game leaving the pro’s to cannibalise each other.
I think bookies will survive. On-course traders will take money off mug punters but I would guess a lot of in-running activity is on-course traders betting against each other which is a zero-sum game at best. Anyone foolish enough to bet large on a delayed feed will lose a lot of money quite quickly and be knocked out of the game leaving the pro’s to cannibalise each other.
I’d agree with this. I heard stories earlier this year of the market becoming so competitive that traders were lumping on before the leaders had even jumped the last
You’ve got to have some bollocks to do that and as someone once said on here ‘all for the price of Kit-kat’….and the taxi fare home
As I understand it the blacking out of the windows etc is to do with not needing a license from the Gambling Commission this is their take on it:
Racecourse hospitality boxes offer a lot of the facilities for gambling, in particular a live picture feed, which the Gambling Commission would ordinarily use to identify a trading room on the high street. As long as a track or individual is not advertising the availability of the box as a trading room, or offering facilities which are not part of the standard hospitality package, it is unlikely an operating or premises licence is required. However, each case will be judged on its individual circumstances.
Gambling CommissionRacecourse hospitality boxes offer a lot of the facilities for gambling, in particular a live picture feed, which the Gambling Commission would ordinarily use to identify a trading room on the high street. As long as a track or individual is not advertising the availability of the box as a trading room, or offering facilities which are not part of the standard hospitality package, it is unlikely an operating or premises licence is required. However, each case will be judged on its individual circumstances.
Gambling CommissionThat’s interesting Pete as quite a few courses have provided dedicated high speed internet for the "trading rooms" and at some courses certain hospitality boxes are used only for traders – it is an interesting thin line they are treading.
Interestingly it seems some of the on-course trading room guys cannot resist a go at the away meetings. I was at Leicester earlier in the year where one of the winners had been backed for £45 at 999 in running – we later found out the bet had been laid by a single trader who was on-course at Newcastle
I understand someone discovered the feed to the Holiday Inn at Wolverhapton also had no delay so some shrewdies were booking a room for £60 and trading from there rather than pay £150 for the ‘official’ on course trading room.
Excellent thread , some very insightful posts , so if there are any casual in running players reading this , then smell the coffee , and take up gardening , it will be a lot less stressful
so assuming a race was being run straight (gosh dream on ), you are about 6 seconds behind , that could be as much as 100 yds in the last furlong,or a faller at the last , or a mistake at the last , either way your dosh is well and truly done
Dont do it
Ricky
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