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Cant get a proper debate in here anymore .. Europe is the biggest threat to our way of life since the last war. Our democratic institutions are slowly being replaced or superceded by appointed bodies and the decisions that we should be getting to vote on are being bartered away in treaties, that no-one wants to talk about.
Blair’s ID card scheme is fall-out from the Maastricht Treaty which wont work, will make us less free and cost billions.
I reckon the country is going to the dogs .. but we are probably going to end up with a country that YOU all deserve.<br> :cool:
I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis Dave. <br>What worries me is that unless something radical happens withen the next 10 years or so to drastically reduce the powers of the EC, we’ll end up with the vast majority of voting Britons never having known anything else but government from our unelected EC quas-socialists.<br> With Cameron’s "conservatives" looking like castrated pinkos, those who still believe in democtratic accountability and the primacy of National above EU laws will have no one to turn to in Elections but UKIP. This may result in yet another election victory for the most incompetent bunch of tossers ever to gain power.<br>What a prospect!
Quote: from dave jay on 9:37 am on Jan. 27, 2007[br]Cant get a proper debate in here anymore .. Europe is the biggest threat to our way of life since the last war. <br>
<br>Arguably the quality of your second statement would help explain the first one.
In a week where, for example, it has been revealed that the UK’s manifest disregard for EU legislation on pension protection will leave thousands of former employees of insolvent companies far worse provided for than they should have been, it’s hard for me not to regard the above as a bit of a rabid generalisation.
Further, mentioning the words "German" and "fascist" in the same breath, and – intentionally or otherwise – implying that any Germans other than just the small pool of NPD nutters are meant, wouldn’t be the smartest move either.
gc<br>
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
gc .. its the same old whats wrong with democracy? why try to circumvent the democratic wishes of people who have voted and said ‘Non’ ?
The point I was making is that everytime any country goes away from a democratic process, by definition it becomes ‘rule by dictat’ and ends in tears.
.. and are you saying that the European pension schemes are all okay?
MEPs pension scheme inquiry
By Bruno Waterfield in Brussels<br>Last Updated: 12:34am BST 30/04/2007
EURO-MPs are on a collision course with open information watchdogs after voting to prevent scrutiny of pension perks worth £8 million every year.
The European Parliament’s bureau, the body that oversees the assembly’s administration, has voted to prevent publication of a list naming the 475 MEPs who benefit from a pension scheme worth more than £1,400 a month to Euro-MPs with the taxpayer matching every euro personally contributed with two from the public purse.
Payments are controversial because, for "administrative reasons", the MEP’s personal contributions are taken automatically from office expenses.<br>advertisement
No one checks whether the politician actually pays anything into the fund from his own salary.Many in Brussels believe that a "large proportion" of Euro-MPs are using their office payments to get a free second pension on top of national schemes.
The MEPs have sought to justify suppressing the list on the basis that publication would be "an intrusion into family or personal life".
But sources have told The Daily Telegraph that Nikiforos Diamandouros, the European Ombudsman, will make a finding of maladministration against Euro-MPs unless the names of beneficiaries are published.
"The pension is publicly funded and only available as a result of holding public office as an MEP," said the source.
"The Parliament’s legal services say the list should be public and the European Data Protection Supervisor has no objection."
Well, wasn’t that just like a red rag to a bull?
Bunch of sleazy, corrupt, self-centred, money-grabbing b@st@rds! I wish death to the entire f**cking lot of them!
On a more reasoned point: how can you be such a sneaky, soulless, caniving git, but still have enough of a guilt complex about sitting on your ar$e all day that you have to create nonsense rules to feel like you’re doing something positive?
(Just like being a bookie, I suppose :rolleyes:)
Yes .. the Irish are being forced to vote again after voting NON to the EU’s failed constitution.
This comes as absolutely no surprise – the undemocratic nature of the EU project has always been manifest. It has a semblance of voting but the outcome is as pre-determined as a Soviet-era party congress.
.. from Guido.
It will be up to the Irish again to save us from tyranny .. c’mon the Irish !!
It is Mugabesque – "we did not like result so go away and try again until you get it right".
It just goes to show how "democratic" the European experiment really is.
Let’s hope the Irish electorate return an even more resounding no vote this time.
You can bet you bottom Euro there would not have been a second referendum had the original vote been yes.
It will be a Yes vote
The original NO vote was more of a public show of unhappiness at the current government who have been shown up to be no more than a shower of lying barstewards since the last general election, not least the outgoing Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern.
This time around, the YES campaign will be geared around how screwed we will be without the EU in times of a global recession and the YES vote will win.
We also voted NO to Nice first time around as well.
I voted No the first time around. If we get cast iron legally binding guarantees on non interference in corporate tax, neutrality, abortion and industrial development policy I will happily vote Yes next time, anything else including the power of veto (I dont trust the muppets who run our country, none of ’em) and it will be a big No from me again.
I think its fair to say most Irish people are pro European and want to remain in the EU, I certainly do, but not at any cost.
Interesting replies from the Irish .. I am genuinely interested in this, so I’d like to ask a couple of questions.
1) What do you think of having the referendum again when you have already voted no and what do you think this says about the democratic process? For example how many votes do you think you should have on the same subject, if the answer is always inappropriate?
2) If the EU gets a yes vote do you think you should have another referendum?
In the UK we were promised a referendum, but our liars didn’t allow it to happen because they couldn’t win.
I know where you are coming from dave and to some extent I agree. However, as we have seen in recent US elections (not the last one obviously), democracy isn’t really what it says on the tin and, at the end of the day, whether we like it or not, the EU aren’t going to allow a little thing like 862,415 people on the edge of Europe spoil the Treaty of Lisbon!
After the Nice Treaty was rejected and then a slightly watered-down Nice Treaty was then endorsed, I believe that people here just used the Lisbon Treaty referendum to voice their disapproval of the government, in the belief that we would have a second chance to give the EU the thumbs-up.
What saddens me about the whole EU debate in the UK is how politicians and the media conflate being anti-EU with being anti-European.
I’m pro Europe but loathe the wasteful, fraudulent, gravy-train for elitist politicians that the EU has become. No buggar in these islands ever voted for what we now find ourselves in.
Up with Europe but down with the EUssr.Its nothing short of a disgrace that Ireland have to vote again this isn’t democracy.
About time people in the UK woke up as well Liebour, Tories and Lib Dems are all pro EU we’re being railroaded into it – where is the democracy in that? Also where is our referendum?
Its a disgrace,
Politicians really are the scum of the earth I despise them and the British people are pathetically appathetic and short sighted.
The original NO vote was more of a public show of unhappiness at the current government who have been shown up to be no more than a shower of lying barstewards since the last general election, not least the outgoing Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern.
I would argue that it was a public show of mass ignorance tbh. Most people admitted they hadn’t a notion what they were voting – it’s hard to blame them from voting no in the circumstances. However, a lot of people made absolutely no effort to understand the treaty (which was never intended to be put to public referendum and is clearly worded as such!) before complaining how the YES campaign (poorly managed though it was) made no effort to explain it.
Just my view fwiw.
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