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Nicholls, a dangerous road

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  • #19563
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17718

    I noticed in today’s Times racing page that Paul Nicholls is planning entries for both Denman and Kauto Star. OK, if that’s what the owners want then fair play but he must agree with it otherwise he he would pipe up; he strikes me as the sort of man who would.

    Can you imagine if one of them fell and was killed at this stage of their careers?

    #370098
    KenhKenh
    Participant
    • Total Posts 738

    On a personal note I would like to see them retired, purely because I don’t want to see two fantastic horses who have been at the very top hacking around in lower grade races unable to compete or putting themselves at risk. However, if the trainer and owners feel they can compete there is no reason why they shouldn’t still race. I’m sure if either shows any sign of not wanting to race or, they haven’t the fitness to do so they would be retired. They are after all racehorses and there are many other horses of their age still running.

    #370105
    Miss WoodfordMiss Woodford
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1351

    So far they have both been self-protecting horses and Nicholls clearly trusts their riders to do right by them.

    2004 Eclipse Champion Steeplechaser Sur La Tete came off a layoff of over 3 years to begin running in timber races this season. You’d think it would raise some eyebrows considering the obvious dangers in timber compared to hurdles, and the fact that Sur La Tete is 13 years old. However, he has finished in the top 3 in 24 of 28 lifetime starts over fences and has been participating in hunter paces/team chases for some time. His day job has always been a foxhunter.

    #370198
    nighthorsenighthorse
    Participant
    • Total Posts 385

    Ok, I know this is not in the same class as Kauto and Denman, but did anyone see the way 12-y-o Toulouse Express won the 4.50 at Sedgefield today?

    Not having won a race since April 2010, despite 17 runs,it would be understandable if connections thought it was time to pension him off. But this lovely old horse set off in front, stayed there, and jumped like a stag for 3m 3f. Seemed to enjoy every second of it.

    Lovely to watch, and no less exciting for being a 2k handicap. If the old fellows still enjoy it, and are not a danger to themselves, they should be kept running.

    #370200
    cormack15cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8783

    Logically, racing those two is no different than racing any other 11/12 year old.

    Emotionally, there’d be an outcry (an illogical one at that) if either were hurt in the course of this season.

    Kauto doesn’t know he’s different than any other horse, and neither does Denman. It’s us humans that artificially differentiate between them and their contemporaries.

    #370203
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17718

    Kauto doesn’t know he’s different than any other horse, and neither does Denman. It’s us humans that artificially differentiate between them and their contemporaries.

    All horses are equal, but (with a nod to Orwell) aren’t some horses more equal than others?

    #370210
    cormack15cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8783

    Some are more equal only because of our tendency towards anthropomorphism.

    I’m sure, among his fellow equines, Kauto Star is just one of the herd.

    But, I agree it would be a pretty soulless sport if we didn’t enjoy and appreciate the achievements of horses, albeit from our human perspective.

    #370212
    EmmyKEmmyK
    Member
    • Total Posts 166

    Denman to me, bar totesport bowl run, has looked like he could do another season. Kauto I’m less sure about but i guess they know what they are doing. I guess if they’ll be entered depends on how they take to training this autumn.

    #370222
    thehorsesmouththehorsesmouth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5480

    It’s easy enough to see Kauto Star running a poor race at Haydock, as has happened before (remember Snoop Loopy’s race).

    However, I feel he often runs below par on his seasonal return. If he runs a similar race to the one he ran that day when Snoopy Loopy won, will there be calls for his retirement, or will he be given one more chance :?:

    #370228
    SteeplechasingSteeplechasing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5767

    I noticed in today’s Times racing page that Paul Nicholls is planning entries for both Denman and Kauto Star. OK, if that’s what the owners want then fair play but he must agree with it otherwise he he would pipe up; he strikes me as the sort of man who would.

    Odd, the different perceptions we have; Mr Nicholls has always struck me as the type to do exactly what his big owners want. I daresay he will offer an opinion but I doubt he’d cross Clive Smith.

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

    #370229
    Irish Stamp
    Member
    • Total Posts 3185

    Denman for me looks like he can go another season – I’ve never believed he was the super horse others claim him to be, he’s accomplished something few horses do but that’s down to his build rather than anything else.

    Kauto on the other hand is nearly 12 and has been racing at the top/upper end of jumps racings pyramid since he was 3, he started in his first listed race almost 8 years ago, his first graded race in October 2003 and won his first Graded race as a 4yo.

    Both will enjoy a long and happy retirement – health issues permitting and I hope that will be after the 2011/12 season :)

    #370343
    fitzer1987fitzer1987
    Participant
    • Total Posts 221

    What a load of rubbish. These are still two great horses who clearly still enjoy racing and are showing Nicholls plenty at home.

    Let the old boys race for as long as they still enjoy it. Good on the owners and good on Nicholls. Also if all men are born equal why are not all horses. One human life is no more important than that of another so nor is a horses life.

    Is a premier league players life more important than a league 2 player. Of course not. So why is a class 1 horses life more important than a class 5. Public affection or not. The only difference is money, and its the owners that would take the hit there and bare the real loss and pain.

    #370346
    GingertipsterGingertipster
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    • Total Posts 26575

    Clive Smith has already said that Kauto Star will be retired if it becomes apparent he’s not good enough to compete at the highest level. Am sure it will be the same for Denman. Latter has had less racing than his stable mate so is more likely to maintain his form level this year. Although I’d be more inclined to back against them both. I heard somewhere Denman will only have two runs this season, Lexus and Gold Cup. Is that still the case?

    value is everything
    #370369
    BennyB
    Member
    • Total Posts 235

    If I had a horse that had finished in the frame in this year’s King George and Gold Cup, he’d be aimed at them again this season.

    #370419
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17718

    Is a premier league players life more important than a league 2 player. quote]

    If only moronic ******* footballers had the mortality rate racehorses suffer.

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