May 16, 2007 at 23:23 #1692
anyone know if this stallion is a thoroughbred?
in a way this brings matters full circle, on the day it was announced that the Equine Fertility Unit (run by Frankie’s father-in-law) is to close:<br> Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â <br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>The EFU….began with a project initiated by Peter Burrell, the longtime director of the National Stud who was also a chairman of the TBA, and then PhD student Twink Allen in 1970.
Presaging the devastating outbreak of contagious equine metritis in 1977, and the need for an emergency store of semen in case of an epidemic of venereally transmitted disease, they began experimenting with freezing semen from National Stud stallions.
After the Jockey Club put a stop to that, they turned to research in improving fertility in mares. Among the results have been the introduction, and now widespread use, of hormones such as prostaglandin and regumate and the use of ultrasound to monitor and control the fertility cycle in mares.<br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
witMay 17, 2007 at 07:53 #59775
….and for those (like me) who thought fiddling with stallion sperm in thoroughbreds was strictly forbidden, consider this:
The practice ["reinforcement"], which involves removing semen from a mare’s vagina after the stallion covers her and reinserting it with a pipette as close as possible to the egg in the uterus, is accepted practice in nearly all major racing nations, including Britain and Ireland.
While unnecessary in normally fertile stallions, it is understood that a stud in Newmarket with a young, sub-fertile stallion has been offering the procedure to mare owners as an option.
However the Australian breeders, whose stud book bans the practice, fear it could be construed as a form of artificial insemination, which is banned throughout the thoroughbred world. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â In particular, they believe it could be used as a legal argument to challenge the ban on AI.
……Professor Twink Allen (pictured above), director of the Equine Fertility Unit in Newmarket, says that reinforcement is ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œAI through the back doorÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚ÂMay 17, 2007 at 11:40 #59776racinggirlukMember
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99.9% of studs in the Newmarket area are TB studs…(I have a friend who works at Cheveley Park, I will email them and see if they know anything).<br>AI in Tbs is strictly forbidden in any kind of racing….May 17, 2007 at 18:04 #59777VenusianParticipant
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I think that A.I. should be permitted in thoroughbred breeding. It hasn’t caused any problems in other breeds.May 17, 2007 at 19:51 #59778hoofheartedMember
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<br>……Professor Twink Allen (pictured above), director of the Equine Fertility Unit in Newmarket, says that reinforcement is ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œAI through the back doorÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚ÂMay 17, 2007 at 20:11 #59779Nor1Member
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The problem with AI regarding thoroughbred horses is you couldn’t be sure the semen received for the procedure was genuine. At least with stallion present, you are.<br>Considering the colossal amounts paid at the sales, merely on reputation of the sire, an abuse of an AI system would be a certainty.May 17, 2007 at 20:32 #59780hoofheartedMember
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You can’t be certain either that the "right" stallion would be produced to service the mare! In the covering shed there are usually not much more than three entities present — the pair of four-legged lovers and the stud groom. Wide open also to skullduggery if you wish to let your imagination run riot.
That’s why there is Blood Typing and DNA Profiling for thoroughbreds.May 17, 2007 at 20:33 #59781AnonymousInactive
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I work with trotting horses in France.AI is allowed in France.All the stallions that are booked work with AI.
Only the stallions wich are not very demanded and the ones having a bad fertility in AI work in natural covering.
You can see some young stallions covering in AI more than 150 mares and racing in the same time.
A French stallion is allowed to cover 100 French mares<br>but there’s no limit for the foreign broodmares.
A stallion covers in AI only 4or5 times per week.When I see Irish stallions covering more than 200 mares in natural covering.What a job!!!!!!
Maybe one day we’ll see a horse like Dylan Thomas covering on the Saturday morning and the afternoon the same horse will win a Group1 as the best trotting horses do in France.May 17, 2007 at 22:36 #59782VenusianParticipant
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Unforunately, not much chance of that, Dancarter!
By the way, I see the prime exponent of what you describe, namely, Jag De Bellouet, is 10 years old today.May 17, 2007 at 22:54 #59783Mr FriskParticipant
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I’m barely even a novice, never mind an expert, when it comes to the breeding side of things, so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but is there not a big difference between "re-enforcement" – and I’m so glad it’s not me rummaging about in there – and AI. Re-enforcement still demands that the stallion and mare are in the same room and do the biz. You can’t do it if the stallion is on a different continent.May 17, 2007 at 22:56 #59784Mr FriskParticipant
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And while I’m at it, do the breeding experts on here think that allowing AI would be a good thing or a bad thing for the Coolmore Stud operation? Again, maybe a stupid question….May 18, 2007 at 04:03 #59785AdrianParticipant
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I can’t really see the difference between reinforcement and AI – being as in the former they take the sperm out of the mare, improve it in a centrifuge and then reinsert it manually in the most advantageous area of the mare.
Having said that I’m in favour of AI. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â It is used with the top arab racing stallions.
The main advantage are that you cut down the risk of diseases spreading to the stallions – and then obviously they in turn are less likely to likely to spread to mares.
Secondly it cuts down on the costly (and potentiall risky) business of shipping mares, often overseas. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â They can stay in their home paddock and get the same stallion service.
Similarly (I’m not an expert on this) it could possibly avoid stallions having to shuttle to the Southern Hemisphere if they semen could be sent there keeping them in good condition.
It used to be argued that by keeping to natural coverings stallions would be kept to 40-50 mares a year but this is a nonsense now with many stallions, particularly Irish covering over 200.
With DNA testing I can’t see how AI is any more prone to bad practise than natural coverings.
I agree with Racing Girl that most stallions in Newmarket are TBs. However some of the teasers are not and there are a few native pony stallions in surrounding villages.
(Edited by Adrian at 5:05 am on May 18, 2007)May 18, 2007 at 07:58 #59786betlargeParticipant
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Do you all mind?
I’m trying to have my breakfast.
MikeMay 18, 2007 at 09:19 #59787
however the economics might play out on the stallion side if Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â AI made it possible to cover say 2,000 rather than 200 mares, wouldn’t the greater potential impact of AI be on the dam’s side?:
Surrogate dams and embryo transfer
Often an owner does not want to take a valuable competition mare out of training to carry a foal.
This presents a problem, as the mare will usually be quite old by the time she is retired from her competitive career, at which time it is more difficult to impregnate her.
Other times, a mare may have physical problems that prevent or discourage breeding.
However, there are now several options for breeding these mares.
These options also allow a mare to produce multiple foals each breeding season, instead of the usual one.
Therefore, mares may have an even greater value for breeding.
Embryo Transfer: The relatively new method involves removing the mare’s fertilized embryo a few days following insemination, and transferred to a surrogate mare.
Gamete Intrafallopian Transfer (GIFT): The mare’s ovum and the stallion’s sperm are deposited in the oviduct of a surrogate dam. This technique is very useful for subfertile stallions, as fewer sperm are needed, so a stallion with a low sperm count can still successfully breed.
Egg Transfer: An oocyte is removed from the mare’s follicle and transferred into the oviduct of the recipient mare, who is then bred. This is best for mares with physical problems, such as an obstructed oviduct, that prevent breeding.
witMay 18, 2007 at 09:48 #59788SalMember
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"if AI made it possible to cover say 2,000 rather than 200 mares"
This is primarily the reason that AI is not allowed currently. Most stallions do not currently cover 200 mares anyway, but an increase in the stallions that did, or even a small percentage increase in coverings per stallion would lead to a dramatic concentration of the (already inbred) thoroughbred gene pool.
As breeders have been known to be less than sensible about distributing their mares equally among different bloodlines, it is inevitable that certain lines would be favoured above others, to detrimental effect. Imagine if Sadler’s Wells could be covering 350 mares a year for the next 10 years. There would be the demand, but by 2020 the breed would altered beyond recognition. The less fashionable stallion lines (such as those that produced this year’s two Newmarket Guineas winners) would die out. The individuality of the breed on different continents would be erased, as it is far easier to transport a phial than a horse.
As present, studbook authorities do not have legal power to prevent this type of domination, and with freedom of trade I’m not sure they ever will. It would need a watertight global agreement between breeders and authorities before the medical benefits of AI could be implemented with the dangers of abuse.
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