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This has now gone from a general opinion on TRF to at least a truism and for many, a rock-solid fact.
Many of you may find betting on top-quality racing profitable and enjoyable. I totally appreciate that. I love watching the best stuff but I wouldn’t bet on it with ‘yours’.
Ironically the reasons so many love top-grade racing are similar to why I can’t touch it. The runners are normally fully wound up, their abilities tend to be pretty much exposed, it’s all extremely competitive and by-and-large horses are running under their preferred conditions. I’ll concede that it may be easier to find the winners, but getting an edge or spotting a price rick is very difficult.
The races I bet on generally contain a majority of horses that move at glacial speeds, jump an obstacle like Cyril Smith and are trained by people called Dorothy who run part-time catteries at their stables. The upside to this, of course, is that many races can be cut to a handful of realistic contenders with the top of the market frequently overbet.
The old downside of finding something at 10’s in the tissues opening at 7-4 is now flagged up by Betfair, and whilst moderate races will always throw up a number of “what the ****?” results, my experience is there’s not as many as people assume. The idea that it’s full of coups and touches has some romantic attachment for the credulous, but the amount of them are never enough to damage an overall betting strategy (and anyway, you always have a stack of other races to choose from).
I’m not saying low-grade racing is betting manna; it’s not. However the idea that the majority of races in this country should be dismissed as potential betting mediums on some dogmatic half-truth is unworthy of the thinking punter.
Mike
I don’t bet on the low grades. Because I am better at evaluating form (cue Reet
) in the higher grades. I don’t see it as impossible to make money around the gaffs, just not my thing. Do believe there are more betting coups and skulduggery in the lower leagues, though the latter is exaggerated. I’d imagine inside information is more valuable too.Once asked if I’d like to put in for a job as a freelance Spotlight writer for the Racing Post. The problem being I’d obviously have to start with the lower grades. Am used to doing notes when working out a 100% book, so the "betting forcast" and write ups should not have been a problem…. But am not used to working out class 6 or 7 stuff. When doing a few dummy runs for that grade my prices were way out. Respect for anyone that can work out these races accurately enough, might try it again some time, but not for me at the moment.
It depends a lot on the punter, each to his own. We have quite a few on here that know the Point To Point / Hunters well, and they probably do better in that sphere.
The one good thing about the top grades is how media and hype effect prices – baking against it. Also find you can get your bet on far easier.In Rubbish racing prices are effected by a far smaller amount of money. Which can (for traders) be a good thing. However, it also means you don’t have much time to get the best price.
Value Is EverythingAgree almost wholeheartedly Mikelarge
I think for many taken in by the familar "never bet on low-grade racing" the phrase becomes something of a self-fulfilling prophecy in that they choose to believe it without exploring it as a potential betting medium; hence they go with the flow and perpetuate the myth
Like you I favour the run-of-the-mill weekday fare at the NH gaffs. It’s not laziness that has me thoroughly enjoying the action at the Cheltenham Festival but eschewing it for the aways at Huntingdon, Hexham and Fakenham betting-wise; no it’s knowledge born of bitter experience that ‘uncompetitive’ races comprising small fields of slowcoaches is where the profit is and large ‘competitive’ fields comprising ‘form on everyone’s sleeve’ horses tearing around Prestbury is more often than not a hop on the express train to Carey Street
Top-class racing is a joy to watch, low-class racing may not be (for some, not me) but the latter offers betting opportunities of, at the very least, equal merit to the former
Those 26+f handicap chases at your local track are a particular favourite, though not today
Agree almost wholeheartedly Mikelarge
Dissagree Most Wholeheartedly Mike!
I never had you down as a mug Punter Drone but racing needs you!Glad to be of service your Maj
I have only the best interests of my fellow punters at heart, and it’s my calling in life to feed that hungry baying braying bragging crowd
This’ll tickle you
The last ante-post bet I had was on Alhaarth at 25/1 for the 2000Gns after he won the Vintage Stakes at Goodwood in 1995
mug or what
Glad to be of service your Maj
I have only the best interests of my fellow punters at heart, and it’s my calling in life to feed that hungry baying braying bragging crowd
This’ll tickle you
The last ante-post bet I had was on Alhaarth at 25/1 for the 2000Gns after he won the Vintage Stakes at Goodwood in 1995
mug or what
Was it the fact he won the worst Dewhurst ever that turned you Drone? Great big cart of a horse he was,not unlike his sire!
Poor potatoes in hindsight maybe, but no, really just seeking your expert opinion on whether taking 25/1 about a horse that was eventually made winter fav for the Guineas, won the Craven at 1/2 and was eventually fourth in the Guineas at 2/1fav was a shrewd or mug bet
A win would have ‘seen me alright for the year’ as they say but the fat lady sang a mournful song and such was the heart-rending disappointment following months of crazy dreams filled with images of palm-fringed south sea islands, a bulging wine cellar and box of after-eights for the lady wife that I decided to pack in life changing AP bets for good, and infact life-changing bets of any kind. Too, too much of an emotional sine wave
Hey ho, the cold comfort of knowing the bet struck was a ‘value loser’ then
Yep, Alhaarth was a big numb sod and being by Unfuwain out of a stoutish distaff line you’d have thought he’d get 12f well. No, as it transpired and Hern put him back to 8f after giving it a couple of bashes. Won over 10f as a 4yo with Godolphin, though never won a G1 after the Dewhurst
It would be easy for me to say
Alhaarth
was never on my short list at any time of his career as i just didn"t like him,he could be very headstrong and used up a lot of energy pulling Willies arms out but i too fell for a Hern/Carson combo back in the 80"s and backed this fellow at 33/1 for the Derby after winning the Washington Singer at Newbury as a 2yo,he too failed miserably as a 3yo!
Prince of Dance
owned by Sir Michael Sobell!
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The lower the grade of racing the lower social class of owners, we know poor societys are riddled with crime and misdemeanors so its no wonder they can get their foot in the door for cheap and riddle a few races.
Dont touch it, if you dont believe its rigged then you must understand the horses cant hold their form because they are dogs, bit slow and simple in the head.
as a placepotter it matters not to me whether or not the grade is high or low…..but the principle involved is the same in all grades….you are looking for the jolly to get unplaced. What is interesting about this is the fact that when an odds on gets beat or is pulled up for example and the rest of the runners are more evenly matched then it obviously opens up the chance of a big placepot divi. Equally it it goes without saying that we all enjoy watching Cheltenham,Aintree,Glorious Goodwood,Royal Ascot as a spectacle and a challenge but it gets a darned sight harder with lots of good horses.
As if to endorse this point low grade Musselburgh today produced a placepot divi of £724 !The lower the grade of racing the lower social class of owners, we know poor societys are riddled with crime and misdemeanors so its no wonder they can get their foot in the door for cheap and riddle a few races.
Brilliant Mr Wilson, must admit that’s a piece of logic that had passed me by. Food for thought indeed.
I’ll leave it to APRacing, Prufrock, Davidjohnson, Naps, Richard, the Frank ‘n’ Foxy syndicate and whoever else of the TRF 10,000 are proud owners of some ‘slow and simple dog’ to debate with you the social stratum they and their pedigree chum occupy
Would be interesting, but it must be odds-against them feeling they can such is the strength of your damning indictment of the gaff-haunting feckless recidivist poor
Of dukes and dustmen…the sport of kings and kretins
The lower the grade of racing the lower social class of owners, we know poor societys are riddled with crime and misdemeanors so its no wonder they can get their foot in the door for cheap and riddle a few races.
Brilliant Mr Wilson, must admit that’s a piece of logic that had passed me by. Food for thought indeed.
I’ll leave it to APRacing, Prufrock, Davidjohnson, Naps, Richard, the Frank ‘n’ Foxy syndicate and whoever else of the TRF 10,000 are proud owners of some ‘slow and simple dog’ to debate with you the social stratum they and their pedigree chum occupy
Would be interesting, but it must be odds-against them feeling they can such is the strength of your damning indictment of the gaff-haunting feckless recidivist poor
Of dukes and dustmen…the sport of kings and kretins
Kretins isn’t spelt with a k ! But it does produce an anagram of stinker !
The lower the grade of racing the lower social class of owners, we know poor societys are riddled with crime and misdemeanors so its no wonder they can get their foot in the door for cheap and riddle a few races.
Brilliant Mr Wilson, must admit that’s a piece of logic that had passed me by. Food for thought indeed.
I’ll leave it to APRacing, Prufrock, Davidjohnson, Naps, Richard, the Frank ‘n’ Foxy syndicate and whoever else of the TRF 10,000 are proud owners of some ‘slow and simple dog’ to debate with you the social stratum they and their pedigree chum occupy
Would be interesting, but it must be odds-against them feeling they can such is the strength of your damning indictment of the gaff-haunting feckless recidivist poor
Of dukes and dustmen…the sport of kings and kretins
Kretins isn’t spelt with a k ! But it does produce an anagram of stinker !
I think it’s Drone being poetically alliterative John.
Mike
As if to endorse this point low grade Musselburgh today produced a placepot divi of £724 !
Musselburgh is a good example of a punter-friendly NH gaff, at least this punter finds it so, as it tends to produce decent ground throughout the winter; is a fair if sharpish track with no especially tricky fences or undulations; the handicap chase fields are more often than not in single figures; are contested by many with plenty of previous course form; attracts a regular and smallish coterie of trainers; and perhaps most importantly seems to produce well-run generally mishap-free races which provide solid, reliable form
In essence a track where ‘know your form’ ‘know your horses’ and ‘know your trainers’ are potent punting tools
The lower the grade of racing the lower social class of owners, we know poor societys are riddled with crime and misdemeanors so its no wonder they can get their foot in the door for cheap and riddle a few races.
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gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
The main problem with low grade racing is that many of the protagonists suffer from physical and/or mental problems which result in them showing their best form infrequently and often unpredictably (at least for the punter without particular knowledge of each horse’s frailties).
Since the advent of Betfair it’s been much easier to predict when one of these moderate types is going to put its best foot forward – not because of any skullduggery on the part of the owners – but rather because the information that a horse’s physical/mental problems are temporarily in abeyance often leaks out from a stable. The best betting coups tend to result from this sort of information not leaking out rather than a deliberate plot to run a horse over the wrong trip/ground etc.
I would tend to disagree with the OP therefore unless you restrict your punting at this level to ‘following the money’.
The main problem with low grade racing is that many of the protagonists suffer from physical and/or mental problems which result in them showing their best form infrequently and often unpredictably (at least for the punter without particular knowledge of each horse’s frailties).
Since the advent of Betfair it’s been much easier to predict when one of these moderate types is going to put its best foot forward – not because of any skullduggery on the part of the owners – but rather because the information that a horse’s physical/mental problems are temporarily in abeyance often leaks out from a stable. The best betting coups tend to result from this sort of information not leaking out rather than a deliberate plot to run a horse over the wrong trip/ground etc.
I would tend to disagree with the OP therefore unless you restrict your punting at this level to ‘following the money’.
I don’t think you do disagree with me. Because my point is not that I think
you
should bet on low-grade racing. It’s that I don’t think that others should tell me, or anyone else, that we
shouldn’t
.
I find it holds opportunities I don’t find elsewhere. But all I’m saying is that
I
find that, not that you should…if you see what I mean!
Mike
) in the higher grades. I don’t see it as impossible to make money around the gaffs, just not my thing. Do believe there are more betting coups and skulduggery in the lower leagues, though the latter is exaggerated. I’d imagine inside information is more valuable too.
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