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I’m remembering that great Welsh Speaker, can’t remember his name, but he had a terrific air of gravitas about him
Thomas George Thomas (Speaker from 1976 to 1983), 1st Viscount Tonypandy.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Graeme wrote:-
I know the English snobs have had it in for him because he’s a Glaswegian for quite some time, but to me it appears as if they need a scapegoat in the form of ‘Gorbals Mick’ as they call him.
That’s nonsense Graeme. The fact is he was useless – not because he was a Glaswegian.
This is a guy who spent £100,000+ of TAXPAYERS money trying to block the FOI decision that MPs expenses should be made public.
This is the guy who failed abysmally to stand up to the police who searched an MPs HofC office without a search warrant. And then had the bad grace to try and pin the blame on his underling.
This is the guy who did nothing (in fact was said to be a prime-moverr behind it) when the woman (forget her name) who investigated breaches of parliamentary standards a bit too well, got the push.
This is the guy who, in complete breach of parliamentary convention, failed to recall Ed Balls (childrens minister) to explain the charge that he had lied to the House in the debate on the Sats debacle. (Balls may have been innocent (choke), but why wasn’t he recalled to explain?) That was Martin’s call.
The guy is an incompetent , chippy and clearly not the impartial defender of the house that he should have been, It doesn’t matter that he’s a jock. What does matter is that he was f*****ing useless.
The chippiness of the Scots such as yourself does tyour great country no favours. It makes you all sound like paranoid cry-babies, incapable of seeing the shortcomings of anyone from Scotland. There are plenty of English wan@@rs, but you don’t hear us saying "they’re only picking on Smith/Blears/Hogg/McKayMoran/Straw etc." ‘cos they’re English. Grow up.I’m remembering that great Welsh Speaker, can’t remember his name, but he had a terrific air of gravitas about him
Thomas George Thomas (Speaker from 1976 to 1983), 1st Viscount Tonypandy.
gc
………….Great?……….Gravitas? ………Probably actually most famous for his voice and accent and particularly then because of the novelty of Parliament being radio broadcast in the mid- late 70s.Simiilar modest humble etc background to Michael Martin and seemingly not particularly distinguished career in Govt unless you regard Secretary of State for Wales as particularly high flying, so IMO that begs the question why the hereditary title as opposed to the bog standard ten a penny peerage that comes with leaving the job.
Could it be that the self serving,some might say corrupt practices of politicans and the political system has been going on for even longer than we thought. Surely not?Graeme wrote:-
I know the English snobs have had it in for him because he’s a Glaswegian for quite some time, but to me it appears as if they need a scapegoat in the form of ‘Gorbals Mick’ as they call him.
That’s nonsense Graeme. The fact is he was useless – not because he was a Glaswegian.
This is a guy who spent £100,000+ of TAXPAYERS money trying to block the FOI decision that MPs expenses should be made public.
This is the guy who failed abysmally to stand up to the police who searched an MPs HofC office without a search warrant. And then had the bad grace to try and pin the blame on his underling.
This is the guy who did nothing (in fact was said to be a prime-moverr behind it) when the woman (forget her name) who investigated breaches of parliamentary standards a bit too well, got the push.
This is the guy who, in complete breach of parliamentary convention, failed to recall Ed Balls (childrens minister) to explain the charge that he had lied to the House in the debate on the Sats debacle. (Balls may have been innocent (choke), but why wasn’t he recalled to explain?) That was Martin’s call.
The guy is an incompetent , chippy and clearly not the impartial defender of the house that he should have been, It doesn’t matter that he’s a jock. What does matter is that he was f*****ing useless.
The chippiness of the Scots such as yourself does tyour great country no favours. It makes you all sound like paranoid cry-babies, incapable of seeing the shortcomings of anyone from Scotland. There are plenty of English wan@@rs, but you don’t here us saying "they’re only picking on Smith/Blears/Hogg/McKayMoran/Straw etc." ‘cos they’re English. Grow up.I’m only going by what i’ve heard with regards to all this. Some people down in certain rags down there call him ‘Gorbals Mick’, even though he isn’t from the Gorbals. They only used this area because of its reputation going back decades due to poverty, razor gangs and high rise flats. I also heard an MP on television the other night saying some people in certain positions down there aren’t pleased with a catholic holding such a high position in Parliament.
I bet the MPs were more than content with him trying to block investigations into expenses.
I don’t know what you mean by "The chippiness of the Scots such as yourself does your great country no favours." – sorry but i don’t see how we do our country no favours by thinking that some Nigels have had it in for him because the guy has a less that priveleged background. Are you telling me that snobbery dosen’t exist in British politics ?
Graeme.
First of all, any suspicion that there was any anti Martin sentiment because he is a Catholic is nonsense. Whoever first posited this is totally wrong.
You ask:-I don’t know what you mean by "The chippiness of the Scots such as yourself does your great country no favours." – sorry but i don’t see how we do our country no favours by thinking that some Nigels have had it in for him because the guy has a less that priveleged background. Are you telling me that snobbery dosen’t exist in British politics ?
…but the very question includes inherent anti one-section of Parliament terminology ("some Nigels"…priviliged background…) . Snobbery comes from toffs and the working class too. There’s plenty of inverse snobbery in evidence on the Labour benches .But that kind of snobbery is acceptable is it?
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Being over-sensitive about the "Gorbals Mick" moniker is hardly a reason to believe that there’s some anti Scots clique in the Commons; it’s only some (and I repeat – some) of the Scots who think that’s so. One can hardly say that Scotland has been under represented in the Cabinet or the Commons recently.
If there is any section of MPs that IS discriminated against then it’s probably the English toffs (or the "Nigels"). Why? An English Toff and a Scottish lefty could be either great or crap in a job such as Speaker. It just happens that Martin was the latter – a Scot and crap..
The people who really let Speaker Martin down were the very "friends" who pushed him into the post in the first place. It may have been a victory for those New Labour bods who wanted to poke the Tories and Parliamentary convention in the eye by ensuring the Tory "Nigel" Sir George Young didn’t accede to the post as tradition held, but in doing so, they put in a man clearly not up to the job, George Martin as Speaker is the embodiment of the "Peter Principle". In getting him to go for the job they let the man himself down (as well as the taxpayers,Parliament and the country).
It may have been mainly Quentin Letts in The Daily Mail who rubbished Martin’s performance and integrity, (and Letts would strike those lefties with chips-on-their-shoulders as a typical English toff) but be that as it may – HE WAS RIGHT. Martin may or may not be an excellent constituency MP, but as Speaker, he was dismal.I’m not over sensitive about anything, let alone some guy i don’t know being called Gorbals Mick. I just found it a bit strange that they would call him this when he dosen’t come from the Gorbals.
It was george Foulkes who mentioned some elements having a problem with Catholicism. As i said i don’t care much for politics, so it may or may not be true. I’m sure Tony Blair had to wait until he wasn’t PM until he converted.
I think you’re the one who got sensitive because i said they had a problem with the speaker.
I also read this part of an article ….
"Friends say he is kind in private but former staff have complained of their treatment. He bridles at the nickname “Gorbals Mick”, seeing it as a symptom of English snobbery and prejudice against the first Catholic Speaker since the 16th Century. "
Well Graeme, perhaps Mick Martin perceives this anti working-class/Catholic/Scots prejudice because he IS a scot with an anti-English chip?
Maybe it’s his way of blaming others for his own inadequacies rather than admitting to himself that he was a shambles as speaker..Funny you should say that, because I was wondering to myself if the person who told me had got Esther mixed up with Joanna [as if that was possible!]. Remember that Lady wotsit who used to be speaker used to be a tiller girl!
Hackney Betty (Boothroyd) ?
That’s her. She was great although scarily reminded me of my old geography teacher.
I like the double dip myself .. claiming interest payments on a mortage that doesn’t exist, that’s seems to be a Tory sort of thing, along with moat repairs, tennis courts .. etc. Labour are more along the lines of property speculating, porn movies and kit-kats.
I saw today that Ruth Kelly is saying that it was a mistake, her claiming for flood damage on her house even though she had insurance. It was a mistake because it’s hard trying to look after 4 kids. So anyone who’s got 4 kids is above the law and can scam as much money as they like out of the system? Who the F does she think she is, Karen Matthews?
As for the talk about Micheal Martin being Scottish and a Catholic and all that .. it’s just unlucky for him that he was in charge when the wheels fell off the gravy train.
Good stuff insomniac. Some ridiculous paranoia in this thread
Wouldnt call him unlucky Dave at all. Sure, his guidance came from no 10 (most likely) but turning Graeme’s stuff on its head, his background no doubt didnt hinder him getting the job in the first place….quite the opposite…
Ruth Kelly’s totla lack of political antennea never fails to amaze
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Nothing has been turned on its head. An opinion is an opinion, and mine still stands. Just because he got the job in the first place dosen’t mean everyone likes him, and it’s idiocy to inscinuate otherwise. Some people on this thread are acting like i’m the originator of this allegation, and not people such as Michael Martin or George Foulkes. Take the blinkers off if you think certain politicians, peers or press members don’t discriminate against people of less privelaged backgrounds or other religions.
.. Graeme, you are entitled to your own opinion and quite rightly so. The big about privaledge backgrounds and religious persuasions doesn’t really hold any water once you have reached the top though does it?
Martin was feeding from the same trough as all the rest of them, I haven’t heard anything about him divvyin the proceeds up with anyone or sharing it out about the seething masses.
Tony Blair’s a pro-catholic, his religion doens’t seem to have held him back unless you know otherwise.
Earlier this year Hazel Blears said that internet bloggers made the public cynical about politicians ..
.. Graeme, you are entitled to your own opinion and quite rightly so. The big about privaledge backgrounds and religious persuasions doesn’t really hold any water once you have reached the top though does it?
Martin was feeding from the same trough as all the rest of them, I haven’t heard anything about him divvyin the proceeds up with anyone or sharing it out about the seething masses.
Tony Blair’s a pro-catholic, his religion doens’t seem to have held him back unless you know otherwise.
Earlier this year Hazel Blears said that internet bloggers made the public cynical about politicians ..
I never actually gave it a thought until George Foulkes said people had a problem with his religion, or until i real Michael Martin himself said people were classist against him.(he said this a good while ago btw)
I don’t think Tony Blair actually became a catholic until he left 10 Downing Street. I can think of no reason why he felt he had to wait until he left until he converted.
Just because you reach the top, it dosen’t automatically mean everyone will eat out of the palm of your hand. It’s very gullible to think along those lines, especially where the press is concerned.
And before one of the boards Nigels get all high dough, i don’t care if he was discriminated against, or the religous issue.
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