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Don’t know if it’s been asked before, but is there any reason why JP doesn’t have any horses with Nicholls? As a fan of McCoy, I can’t remember him ever riding in the Gold Cup for JP – in fact has JP got any decent young chasers coming through?
I’m sure he’s on a nice retainer, but he must be thoroughly p****d off at yet another disappointing Festival, 1 winner, and only one hotly fancied ride – the rest were much of a muchness.In all honesty AP had a decent set of rides, maybe not in the championship races but the handicaps looked good for him.
Off the top of my head he had Calgary Bay, Binocular, the legendary Wichita Lineman, Cant Buy Time and Sunnyhillboy all of which looked like very decent festival bets. And thats without bringing Exotic Dancer into the equation.
I think the main problem JP has (although doesnt seem bothered by it) is that he has 100’s of horses with JJ O’Neill, in all honestly JJ O’Neill is probably one of the worst trainers out there considering the amount of horses he has, the amount of resources he has, and also the money JP has given him.
You have to ask yourself why are all of JP’s stars with other trainers??
But McCoy seems go get as enthusiastic by winning at Plumpton on a Tuesday than he does Cheltenham, he just loves having winners and it seems like he prefers quantity over quality.
I think McCoy will be happy with his festival bar Binocular
Another reason I presume JP does not have horses with Nicholls is I presume because of Findlay,Ferguson etc, He wouldnt be the star owner…..
I always wondered who buys JP’s horses and could anyone not do a better job the amount of duds he seems to have? But sure the man is so rich does he really care, u know last year when C Cee Bee won at Cheltenham, it was the first time JP actually saw the horse!!!!!!
I’m trying to remeber the name of JP’s Gold Cup horse who was going well If I remeber and fell….I think..A name like Jay Trump but not that…should rewrite this but stiff it. It was Jack of Trumps.
He doesn’t half like his hurdlers though. Exoeensive flat horses who probaly will never go chasing. Can’t see WL ever running in a Gold Cup he’d be tailed of after a circuit and get beat a length which is no good
I seriously doubt AP will be happy with how the Festival went.
Only 1 winner, Binocular beaten, and didn’t even have rides in the two Grade 1’s on Thursday.
At the time AP chose to move to JP, Martin Pipe did not have the fire power he once had. It seemed as though Jonjo was on the up.
Jonjo does have a good record at the Festival, particularly in handicaps. Though I can only remember Iris’s Gift winning a top race.
JP does not often move a horse he buys away from it’s original trainer. Even Baracouda stayed in France. He should have a good deal of credit for that.
But consequently Jonjo does not get many horses moved to him.
PN has done exceptionally well with horses who had shown promising form in France.
Jonjo may not be as good as Nicholls but he is not a bad trainer.
Mark
Value Is EverythingAh I have to argue the fact that Jonjo is a bad trainer
To be given the resources he has been given, and to do as medeocur as he has , I feel he is a bad trainer.
With normal day to day racing most winners come from small yards. There are plenty of winners AP can get on. However, when it comes to the best racing and the best horses: Most Brittish trained good horses are in Nicholls, King or Henderson’s yards. Stables that have their own stable jockey. AP may get the odd ride from Henderson but most will be ridden by BG. Therefore AP will rarely get as many good rides as Ruby, Choc or Barry in the very top races.
Mark
Value Is EverythingAh I have to argue the fact that Jonjo is a bad trainer
To be given the resources he has been given, and to do as medeocur as he has , I feel he is a bad trainer.
What horses should he have done better with?
It is your opinion, not a fact Micks.Mark
Value Is EverythingIt is just my opinion which I presume I am entitled to, apologies for calling it a fact.
In my opinion he should of done better with the 551 runners he had 2008-2009 season so far
Nicholls has had exactly 500 runners this season
Yet Nicholls has won £3,072,215 in prize money whereas O Neill has won £891,860 in prize money
Now I guess the argument here is do you think Nicholls has been given more money,better horse,amunition than O’Neill.
Honestly I feel for the amount of resources O Neill has, he is a bad trainer.
If I was an owner giving my trainer 551 runners so far this year I would expect a greater return. Can you imagine the actual loss McManus is making on keeping these horses in training?
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I like Jonjo looks a happy go lucky man always smiling must be a joy to work with.
I think that is why JP is so loyal to him, they are old mates, and in fairness J J does seem like a sound bloke.
I personally just dont think he is a very good trainer, but yeah he seems a top bloke
But if you want to look at bad owners lets look at Mrs Diane Whateley
The Grey Berry / Cost £340,000 /Won £2,497
Warsaw Pact / Cost £200,000 / Won £26,715
The list for this lady goes on
You can either look at it one of two ways
1) Fair play to her for investing so much money in the sport and taking her chance
or
2) You have to wonder what do you have to do to become a bloodstock agent/expert and justify advising/spending 300k plus on a horse to win 2k
Surely anyone can do this?
I suppose if you are this rich though do you really care?
The Grey Berry’s career and indeed his life was tragically cut short. It wouldn’t be fair to judge him on his few hurdles runs – he hadn’t even had a chance in a handicap.
A P may not have had as many winners as he would have liked, but his ride on Wichita Lineman is something that racegoers will remember for a long time.
Ruby Walsh made the point in his interviews about how lucky he felt being the retained jockey for the top trainers in both Britain and Ireland. He is a brilliant rider as well but without these connections he wouldn’t break the records he does.Overall backing all Paul Nicholls runners at The Cheltenham Festival since 2004/5 season you would have lost far more money than backing all Jon Jo’s runners.
Paul NIcholls has run just under twice the number of horses than Jonjo has at The Festival so one should expect therefore far more winners from the Ditcheat team.Tony Mc Coy has a modest record at the Festival in recent seasons with Ruby having 3 times the number of winners as Tony Mc Coy. Yet Mc Coy has had nearly the same number of rides.
It is the ‘spare’ rides from stables other than Jon Jo’s that Tony Mc Coy has picked up that have not won that seems the difference between him and Ruby in recent seasons where as Ruby has the plum rides from Nicholls and Mullins Mc Coys rides for other rainers has been modest.
Jonjo team normally have a good Aintree especially in handicap races and I feel the season is not over for them at present.
J.P. Mc Manus must rank up there with any NH owner when it comes to being passionate about the game.
How any other owners would have so many horses with Edna Bolger just trained for the Cross Country races?
Many of J.P.s former stars are kept and cared for ultimatley by him until they day they die.As J.P. Mc Manus owns his stables there is no logical reason to start phoning the likes of Paul Nicholls to enquire as to whether or not he could train a few of his horses for him.
For all the debate about Jonjo’s training ability what are people’s thoughts on the Johnson and Wylie partnership.
For all the investment made by these two the returns,Drever aside, are slender to say the least. I hope their indecision over Tidal Bay and his optimum trip doesn’t stop this horse showing his true potential.
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