- This topic has 30 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 9 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Who would you have more confidence in betting
your hard earned cash on –McCoy/O’Neill horses or Walsh/Nicolls
horses in general terms.The record for the last 5 years reads –
McCoy – 23% win rate (hurdles)
" " " – 24% " " (fences)O’Neill – 14% win rate (hurdles)
" " " – 17% " " (fences)Walsh – 28% win rate (hurdles)
" " " – 29% " " (fences)Nicolls – 23% win rate (hurdles)
" " " – 24% " " (fences)Not much there to choose between McCoy & Walsh, but
for trainers, certainly Nicolls seem’s to have
control over the better horses & although there are
other good trainer/jockey combinations –Henderson/Geraghty, King/Thornton, Vaughan/Johnson – Coleman & Hobbs/Johnson,the best overall combination would be Nicolls/Walsh.So whilst this would be classed as a good
% bet, Unfortunately this is usually reflected
in the odds on offer from the bookies or
exchanges & therefore not much value to
be had !Mark
- Total Posts 17716
Neither is Jonjo
- Total Posts 17716
When it comes to trainers whether it’s PN, Jonjo, or Nicky Henderson if the horse is right and the race is right there’s nothing between them. my friend says he’s not a fan of Jonjo but I’m damn sure if he can win a race at Cheltnham with the likes of Butler’s Cabin then he sure as hell could win a Gold Cup with a horse like Kauto Star.
I happen to think Ruby is the best jockey I’ve ever laid eyes on but I wouldn’t give a hoot if AP replaced him on a horse I had backed. If someone says they think AP is better I’m not going to argue with them as there simply isn’t enough between them and no one could win that argument.
If Denman had moved to Jonjo’s or Nicky Henderson’s before the Hennessy I’d still have backed him to win.
My fav trainer happens to be Nicky Henderson but PN is the man who has ruled the roost for the past few years.
Damn sure anything he trains would do just as well at Nicky’s though.
Nicky has always had the knack of getting good horses and keeping them that way and will always be in the top drawer.
Jonjo has had a fair bit less to work with than Nicky over the years but give the man a dog and he’ll win a race with it and it’s a lot harder to win a race with bad one than it is with a good .one
PN is a mystery he just keeps coming up with the best best of the best. Much of it is down to his early successes and him making the best of it by buying the right stock He’ll be a hard man to displace as Martin Pipe was. Once you have then cuing up to give you money to spend it makes the job much easier. Keeping them is the hard bit but PN gets results and for now can’t be faulted.
To be honest they are all excellent at what they do and none of the names mentioned would put me off backing a horse if I fancied him with the exception of Alan King who I can never seem to catch at the right tome. At least not since Katchit won the CH. But that’s not him it’s me.
So for me it’s not who installs confidence that counts as all mentioned do, it’s the ones you look at and when you see their names next to a horse you start worrying.
When it comes to trainers whether it’s PN, Jonjo, or Nicky Henderson if the horse is right and the race is right there’s nothing between them. my friend says he’s not a fan of Jonjo but I’m damn sure if he can win a race at Cheltnham with the likes of Butler’s Cabin then he sure as hell could win a Gold Cup with a horse like Kauto Star.
I happen to think Ruby is the best jockey I’ve ever laid eyes on but I wouldn’t give a hoot if AP replaced him on a horse I had backed. If someone says they think AP is better I’m not going to argue with them as there simply isn’t enough between them and no one could win that argument.
If Denman had moved to Jonjo’s or Nicky Henderson’s before the Hennessy I’d still have backed him to win.
My fav trainer happens to be Nicky Henderson but PN is the man who has ruled the roost for the past few years.
Damn sure anything he trains would do just as well at Nicky’s though.
Nicky has always had the knack of getting good horses and keeping them that way and will always be in the top drawer.
Jonjo has had a fair bit less to work with than Nicky over the years but give the man a dog and he’ll win a race with it and it’s a lot harder to win a race with bad one than it is with a good .one
PN is a mystery he just keeps coming up with the best best of the best. Much of it is down to his early successes and him making the best of it by buying the right stock He’ll be a hard man to displace as Martin Pipe was. Once you have then cuing up to give you money to spend it makes the job much easier. Keeping them is the hard bit but PN gets results and for now can’t be faulted.
To be honest they are all excellent at what they do and none of the names mentioned would put me off backing a horse if I fancied him with the exception of Alan King who I can never seem to catch at the right tome. At least not since Katchit won the CH. But that’s not him it’s me.
So for me it’s not who installs confidence that counts as all mentioned do, it’s the ones you look at and when you see their names next to a horse you start worrying.
Very informative indeed Fist.
Apparently Denman & Kauto Star eat a ton of carrots & could be one of the reasons why, Paul Nicholls has had so much success with these two great horses.
I’m very wary about John Jo’s horses at the present moment ………
Mark
Tom Segal, I think it was, made a very good point in last weeks Weekender. He compared McCoy to Steve Bull prolific but mainly at a lesser level and Walsh to Lionel Messi brilliantly talented.
I agree with him entirely McCoy is relentless but in terms of brilliance Ruby is the better jockey. I’d rather have Ruby on my side than anyone.
I disagree. Walsh can win and look impressive on good horses but how does he look on bad horses!!……..I’ll tell ya……..poor
Id sooner AP than Walsh any day of the week. He’ll win on more bad horses than Walsh all day long therefore must be the better jockey IMHO
I disagree. Walsh can win and look impressive on good horses but how does he look on bad horses!!……..I’ll tell ya……..poor
I agree, both are amazing riders, but AP beats Ruby on the poorer horses any day.
If it was a class horse in the Gold Cup, I’d choose Walsh, if it was a seller around Hereford, I’d choose Mccoy.
It’s an unfair question.
Ruby Walsh rides for the top NH trainer and therefore has the advantage of riding by and large the best horses around. Better horses often make good jockeys look even better.
That said, both he and McCoy are excellent professionals, and both bring different attributes to the table.
Walsh has wonderful balance and is a superb tactician and judge of pace. McCoy is driven and has a never say die attitude – he can galvanise the laziest of horses to victory. He is also much stronger than Walsh in a finish, as he is most jockeys. Give me AP in a head to head finish any day, albeit on comparable horses.
However, I tend to back Walsh more than McCoy – but only because he tends ride a better class of animal these days.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
I disagree. Walsh can win and look impressive on good horses but how does he look on bad horses!!……..I’ll tell ya……..poor
Id sooner AP than Walsh any day of the week. He’ll win on more bad horses than Walsh all day long therefore must be the better jockey IMHO
You obviously missed his ride on Lochan Lacha at Fairyhouse last Wednesday, not to mention his inspired ride on Moskova at Clonmel a few weeks back.
AP has a great knack of being able to get a horse to run behind the bridle. However I would judge Ruby to be a better all round horseman. We are priviledged to be able to watch two all time greats in the saddle at the moment.
McCoy aboard Albertas run and Somersby,pure class!
Ruby aboard Twist Magic and Denman,pure class too!I disagree. Walsh can win and look impressive on good horses but how does he look on bad horses!!……..I’ll tell ya……..poor
Id sooner AP than Walsh any day of the week. He’ll win on more bad horses than Walsh all day long therefore must be the better jockey IMHO
You obviously missed his ride on Lochan Lacha at Fairyhouse last Wednesday, not to mention his inspired ride on Moskova at Clonmel a few weeks back.
AP has a great knack of being able to get a horse to run behind the bridle. However I would judge Ruby to be a better all round horseman. We are priviledged to be able to watch two all time greats in the saddle at the moment.
McCoy does the hard bit every week of the year not every now and then. Walsh is fortunate he is with probably the strongest stable in the country if McCoy rode for Nicholls they would IMHO get more winners. Too flashy for me Walsh. His ride on Denman in the Hennessey, why on earth did he keep looking through his legs with a hell of a long way to go……we didnt need a demostration of how well the horse was going…..we knew it was the best in the race….Its that sort of thing i dont like about him.
I disagree. Walsh can win and look impressive on good horses but how does he look on bad horses!!……..I’ll tell ya……..poor
Id sooner AP than Walsh any day of the week. He’ll win on more bad horses than Walsh all day long therefore must be the better jockey IMHO
Some will say Joshua Moore is a better Jockey than MCcoy after he beat him in a driving finish today! There"s more to it than just riding winners!
Yeah saw that race lunch time,Moore got a hell of a run outta that thing and McCoy wasnt being lazy either. The jockeys live for riding winners…….nothing else. Especially the NH boys.
I can never understand what people mean when they say AP never gives up. I didn’t know any jockey was paid to ‘give up’ in the first place! If a horse is responding to a jockeys urgings then no jockey will ‘give up’ – least of all someone of Rubys horsemanship who knows when a horse has had enough for christs sake! To say that this ‘quality’ somehow sets them apart is both ludicrous and ill thought of; something you’d expect to hear off some numbskull down the local bookies.
People use AP’s ride on Wachita Lineman as some great example of a ‘never say die’ ride, like any other Jockey would have thrown in the towel. He kept shoving like he was paid to do – that’s all I saw. Could Ruby not have done the same, if not better? Ruby would probably made it look a lot easier for what that’s worth.
‘Never gives up’!!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.