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The Corsican looks value @ 20/1 (Bet 365) for the King George.
Fourth to Free Eagle, dropped out the back in a slowly run 1m2f Prince Of Wales which went against his chance more than perhaps any other in the race. People made a lot of the trouble in running of The Grey Gatsby and Cranbourne Chase, but The Corsican was just as impeded. Having to wait for a gap and then making up ground all the way to the line. Still a step up on what he’s done before and could improve a good deal more once given a greater test of stamina/better pace.Value Is EverythingNo Ginger, he’s not good enough, no matter what his price.
Telescope for me. Everyone will be slamming him after the Hardwicke and calling him names galore but this horse has the class. I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets a pacemaker for this race. If he gets a fast pace to run off on a sound surface I can’t find a horse listed in the betting that is better than him. Second to Taghrooda last year, he can go one better. 8/1 now, people should be all over that. I’m amazed you don’t see that as value Ginger. The race is rull of improving handicappers, group 3 horses and unknown foreign horses. 9/4 before the Hardwicke, 8/1 now. That is a huge price.
I have just posted about Telescope in the Horse Racing section. There is no way that this horse finished last in the Hardwicke without there being an underlying problem i.e. bad scope after the race perhaps.
He has never been that poor and 8/1 is a gargantuan price. NRNB if I can find it.
I have just posted about Telescope in the Horse Racing section. There is no way that this horse finished last in the Hardwicke without there being an underlying problem i.e. bad scope after the race perhaps.
He has never been that poor and 8/1 is a gargantuan price. NRNB if I can find it.
Major reason why Telescope is an 8/1 chance is probability of running (you won’t get anywhere near 8/1 NRNB). I’d want to know why he was so far below form and not sure (with Stoute) whether we will ever know. Is it a big or small issue? Trainer has other mile and a half King George alternatives… And when they run so poorly Sir Michael tends not to rush them back. 8/1 will be a huge price if he runs; big IF imo Chivers.
Value Is EverythingAgreed, the only way I would see 8/1 Telescope NRNB would be in my dreams. 4/1 a week before the race would still interest me.
I’m certain there was a problem with the horse yesterday though.If my boy Golden Horn runs, my boy Golden Horn wins. In fact, I would happily back Jack Hobbs too, whoever of the two shows up, unless Gosden decides to go only with Eagle Top and/or Mahsoob.
I was disappointed with Telescope . I just cannot have him reversing form with stablemate,
Snow Sky .However, both will have to be on top of their game to see off
rapidly improving Mahsoob.Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
If Golden Horn wins the Eclipse I’d love to see him go for the King George. It would bring back memories of the days of Dancing Brave, Reference Point and Nashwan and would be such a shot in the arm for the race (which has had it’s critics over the last decade or so) and indeed for the wellbeing of the purpose of the pattern. With Taghrooda winning last year and the Derby winner heading there this year it’d really raise the profile of the King George again and hopefully it’d encourage other trainers to target the race with their best three year olds.
Mr Gosden is a man that cares deeply about the sport and I genuinely hope he does the right thing should Golden Horn do the business on Saturday.
If Golden Horn wins the Eclipse I’d love to see him go for the King George. It would bring back memories of the days of Dancing Brave, Reference Point and Nashwan and would be such a shot in the arm for the race (which has had it’s critics over the last decade or so) and indeed for the wellbeing of the purpose of the pattern. With Taghrooda winning last year and the Derby winner heading there this year it’d really raise the profile of the King George again and hopefully it’d encourage other trainers to target the race with their best three year olds.
Mr Gosden is a man that cares deeply about the sport and I genuinely hope he does the right thing should Golden Horn do the business on Saturday.
On the plus side he shouldn’t have a hard time in the Eclipse now that New Bay is a non-runner. The Fabre colt didn’t work well and has been pulled out.
New Bay was described as the next Frankel by one stopwatch expert but the form of his races hasn’t stacked up with Make Believe and Highland Reel both very disappointing on their next starts. I think he would have had a lot on his plate against the Derby winner, with his form franked in no uncertain terms in Ireland last week.
I think Golden Horn is probably due a break after the Eclipse and will then have one more run to prime him for the Arc. It tells a big story that Snow Sky is favourite for the King George and it seems ominous that several contenders will miss the race and others will come into it with a bit to prove.
Snow Sky leapt from 115 to 124 on official ratings for his latest win. Some might be concerned that it was a flash in the pan but he wouldn’t be the first Michael Stoute trained 4yo to leave his previous season’s form well behind him.
Golden Horn will be a worthy favourite if he turns up but they may just go to the well once too often and if the Arc is the main aim I would leave the King George out of it were he my horse.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
It should be a walk in the park for Golden Horn but 3 year olds
do not have such a great record of winning the Eclipse.
I think The Grey Gatsby won’t go down without a battle.Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
I would be very surprised to see GH in the King George. He does love fast ground, but there is only so much a horse can take on it at this level and and he will be on it again in the Coral Eclipse.
Providing Golden Horn runs well on Saturday I think he’ll go to the King George next.
Owner has said he won’t run as a 4 year old and he’s not as likely to get decent ground at Longchamp in October as he is at Ascot in July.
Might want to go for an all age 12 furlong group 1 that is eminently winnable while they can.
I hope he runs.
Providing Golden Horn runs well on Saturday I think he’ll go to the King George next.
Owner has said he won’t run as a 4 year old and he’s not as likely to get decent ground at Longchamp in October as he is at Ascot in July.
Might want to go for an all age 12 furlong group 1 that is eminently winnable while they can.
I hope he runs.
The owner did say he was particularly keen to have a go at the Arc though and that’s a better race to put on the CV in my opinion. Golden Horn won’t prove much by landing what will probably be a depleted King George, but if he can be the horse that stopped Treve from completing an Arc hat-trick and retire unbeaten, he will go down as one of the legends of the sport.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Interestingly Golden Horn seems to be strengthening in the King George market. A couple of weeks ago he wasn’t listed by most firms now he is listed everywhere. He is favourite on Betfair and Boylesports have cut him from 9/2 to 7/2 in the last 24 hours.
I think there is a very good chance he will go to Ascot given his owners connection with that race. In any case I think it is the best option for the horse. The state of the ground cannot be guaranteed on Arc day, the draw can make a big difference to your chance, the race comes at the end of a long season and you need to be a real stayer at the trip to win the race. The king George on the other hand will present Golden Horn with his underfoot conditions, there won’t be that many runners and the race comes at a time when the horse is on top of his game. I would definitely run the Derby winner at Ascot barring any hiccups at Sandown.
Jack Hobbs is a bigger horse and he may continue to progress with time. I’d give him a break then bring him back for a crack at the Arc. Even if the ground is on the soft side it won’t affect Jack Hobbs where it would Golden Horn.
The ground in the King George was good to soft-ish last year and the Arc was good ground, so nothing can be guaranteed.
I would like to see him in as many as they can get him in (including King George) but I would love to see him line up in the arc for sure.Stoute blamed the fast ground immediately after the race for Telescope’s Royal Ascot flop (although that contradicts his record as 3 of his 5 wins have been on Good to Firm – the other two being on Good). Given the current weather conditions, I don’t see the ground being any different for the KG and if the ground really is the issue that Stoute says it is would he even run him?
To me Telescope has always been a high class G2 horse that when upped into G1 races always finds one or two too good for him. Take Taghrooda out of last years race and you could easily mistake it for a top class G2 event. The only way he wins a KG is if the top horses bypass the race altogether, they employ a pacemaker for him and the ground is heavily watered if the current weather continues. Personally, connections should be looking to plunder some of Germany’s G1 races like Grosser Preis Von Baden (which automatically qualifies you for the Breeders Cup Turf) as historically they generally do not take as much winning.
It is a shame that this once great mid season all aged clash now struggles badly to attract the classic generation (a grand total of 22 3 yr olds have run in the race since 2000 of which only 7 were actual Classic winners & only Galileo in 2000, Alamshaar in 2003 and Taghrooda last year actually won the race – the other three that came up short were Kris Kin, Trading Leather & Workforce). The only other 3 yr old to win in that same time period was Nathaniel in 2011.
I think the problems are that apart from the Derby & Arc, 12F races are very unfashionable as breeders are looking for any Derby winners to have performed at the highest level over 8-10F as well plus it is simply a case of the KG being run around the best time for trainers to give their classic 3 yr olds a rest in order to bring them back for an Autumn campaign (whilst the older horses either start appearing from around Royal Ascot time & go on to the Eclipse/KG or are saved primarily for the big year end races).
You only have to look at the long list of G1 races at 10-12F from early August onwards (Juddmonte International, Yorkshire Oaks, Nassau Stakes, Irish Champion Stakes, Prix Neil, Prix Vermeille, Prix Foy, British Champions Fillies & Mares Stakes, Champion Stakes, Arc, Breeders Cup, Hong Kong etc) to see that a horses (especially on a classic campaign) need a break to last the whole season, so more often than not the KG and (to a lesser extent the Eclipse) are races that can be bypassed.
I personally can’t see GH running in the KG at all (it would be his 5th straight race this year – a lot to ask of a 3yr old) and I think the only chance of him running again over 12F would be in the Arc. However, with soft ground being most likely at Longchamp come October time, I think those conditions would be more up Jack Hobbs alley than GH (who has only run once on ground worse than Good on his debut when it was Good to Soft).
I would expect GH to be given a break after the Eclipse and then probably go down the Juddmonte, Irish Champion & Champion Stakes route unless Longchamp’s ground is no worse than Good to Soft on Arc day.
Sorry for the length of this post & for going slightly off topic
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