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Tony McCoy did get the tactics wrong in that he didn’t make enough use of Best Mate’s stamina. As a horse who was better given a stiffer test, there is little doubt that he would have beaten Florida Pearl had he been ridden more aggresively – as he was the following year, when he thrashed Florida Pearl 14l, and in FP’s own backyard!
and like best mate, kauto star has been found wanting when trying to give lumps of weight away. unlike arkle and dessie who both gave plenty of weight away.
He gave weight away in the Old Roan (Off 167) the year before and I would stake a lot of money on the fact that Arkle, Dessie or Best Mate would have done well to get within five lengths of Monet’s Garden over 2m 4f (At aintree) giving him a stone, let alone a length as Kauto did… And that was Kauto’s first run when he was blatently not fully wound up (The difference in muscle definition compared to the KG is blindingly obvious).
Kauto will stay all day. I don’t see why people keep concerning themselves with this!! Did you not see the KG? He was going away, not coming back to them!!
If Denman beats him I will bow down and hail him an absolute monster. He will need to be..
you say that, but you can also look at gold cups where the best horse didn’t win. pendil, carvills hill, tied cottage, bula, night nurse, spring to mind.
best mate could only beat what was put in front of him and he did so.
turpin green finished close enough to Kauto last year. his he any better than harbour pilot or sir rembrandt?
best mate was arguably unlucky against florida pearl at king george – i think a p mccoy admitted he got the tactics that wrong. dont get me wrong, i loved florida pearl, and backed him that day. but he was very much the inferior horse to best mate, especially at cheltenham.
and like best mate, kauto star has been found wanting when trying to give lumps of weight away. unlike arkle and dessie who both gave plenty of weight away.
kauto has captured the imagination so much because of his two mile and 3 mile exploits combined. but i think it would be harsh tp say his contemporaries are significantly superior to best mates.
I am enjoying your input Dessie some I agree with and some I don’t which make you about the same as the rest of us halfwits. Even if your English leaves something to be desired.
Starting with Pendil he certainly wasn’t better than The Dickler over the gold cup trip……he simply never stayed the trip……..he went clear iof the Dickler and stopped..brilliant horse but not a Gold Cup horse,
Bula for me is the best Champion Hurdler of all time. I was there when Ten up won the gold cup and I wouldn’t have had Bula in my dreams…….Ten Up was head and shoulders above him over the trip.
Night Nurse.Gold Cup………..enough said
Tied Cottage agree with you one hundred percent and the same goes for Carvills.
Your statement about Kauto giving away lumps of weight……come on mate , give over!! First race of the season, big as a bull and runs MG to a length..run the race tomorrow and MG wouldn’t blow wind up his ass..you believe differently then you know nothing about racing or training.
Turpin Green……….wouldn’t have matter what was in front of Kauto last year he did what he had to do nothing more nothing less……..to talk about best mate and this horse in the same breath is rediculous. Incindentally Turpin Green is regarded very highly by Nicky Richards……He is tailor made for the place and would win a Gold Cup in a bad year……..66/1 ew is not such a silly bet this year (I hope) he stays forever and with a strong gallop assured this year he will be staying on when many are burned out…underestimate him at your peril.
What Best Mate and what Kauto beat is unimportant..a blind man running for a bus could spot Kauto Stars superiority…….He is an awesome individual with an amazing turn of foot who I would bet against even Arkle if the two jumped the last together…….I know that is one big "if " before you say it………..against Best mate you would have thought Arkle had been reborn,,,,,,,totally different class of animal.
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"……………Even if your English leaves something to be desired. …………."
Hmmm,…………… don’t think that was necessary, Fists.
Colin
A horse who does not truly stay the trip can still run well over that trip, just not as well as a trip he does stay.
In my opinion Florida Pearl was better at 3 miles, the Sun Alliance is over 3m 110 yards, the Gold Cup 3m 2f 110yards.
I am not saying Best Mate was inferior to Florida Pearl, but there was not much between them. Therefore, Best Mate was not quite in the same class as Kauto Star and Dessie.
Value Is Everything"……………Even if your English leaves something to be desired. …………."
Hmmm,…………… don’t think that was necessary, Fists.
Colin
Sorry mate Friday night here and me and the mates have had a few……..off to hunt women tonight so the bloods up……sorry Dessie………
Fists
"He is an awesome individual with an amazing turn of foot who I would bet against even Arkle if the two jumped the last together"
I have to say I disagree with your point above, in fact I would go as far to say that if Kauto Star is only upsides something at the last come March then you’re going to be kissing goodbye to your money. As in both King Georges and last years Gold Cup Ruby has made his move earlier in a come and catch me now scenario. I can’t see him wanting to do anything different and if he hasn’t used his "spurt of acceleration" by then , then he’s in trouble. If Denman or/and Exotic Dancer jump the last upsides I would fancy them to do him. IMHO of course.
Fists
"He is an awesome individual with an amazing turn of foot who I would bet against even Arkle if the two jumped the last together"
I have to say I disagree with your point above, in fact I would go as far to say that if Kauto Star is only upsides something at the last come March then you’re going to be kissing goodbye to your money. As in both King Georges and last years Gold Cup Ruby has made his move earlier in a come and catch me now scenario. I can’t see him wanting to do anything different and if he hasn’t used his "spurt of acceleration" by then , then he’s in trouble. If Denman or/and Exotic Dancer jump the last upsides I would fancy them to do him. IMHO of course.
It was like a figure of speech I am well aware of how Ruby rides him. The point I was making is Arkle like Denman didn’t have instant acceleration whereas Kauto does.
Arkle simply increased his pace from fence to fence and reached such speeds in the last mile of his races nothing got near him….His failure to quicken instantly cost him dearly when Stalbridge Colonist went past him on the blind side.had Pat Taffe not messed up by being too damn cockey he would never have lost the race.
As far as Denman is concerned and I am 100% serious here, I don’t think he has even a remote chance of beating Kauto Star…..he has no chance of taking him of the bridle and when Ruby says go you will see just how much he has improved since last year……..Now you may think I am talking rubbish and everyone is entitled to their opinion but I said he would not only win the King George by along distance but he wouldn’t come off the bridle doing it……….expect the same in the Gold Cup He is a totally different horse than last year and I would say he has improved anything up to 10lbs.
Denman has beat nothing of gold cup class and that is fact….very nice horse, great jumper and potentially a Gold Cup horse V a Gold Cup winner who by all accounts is extraordinary and has improved……5/4 V 2/1 not in my book I’m afraid….that is my idea of them taking the Mickey and I pity any mig punter who bets Denman at a crazy price like that.
And Excuse me Dessie for asking when is that last time Kauto touched a twig in a race or even looked like falling?…….his jumping has been brilliant this season…touch wood!!!
Fist Of Fury, why don’t you pull out some of that money you have lost down the back of your sofa, deposit into a Betfair account and lay the arse out of Denman,
When it drifts, as you have told us it WILL on around 23,569 seperate occasions, back it back to ensure a return whatever happens.
Denman is clearly a top class animal, far better than the average and far better than most of the grade1 3 mile chasing devision, I dont know how anybody could look at his race record and dispute that.
Kauto Star has proven time and again that hes far better than most of his generation, however he’s so good that most of his generation evade him in big races and last years gold cup ended up being a rubbish field and a worse race, in terms of the spectacle.
Going by their last runs kautos was far more impressive than denmans, but ruby didnt ride denman with any real confidence that day and the lexus was run in the same style as it was last year (slow pace and steal first run), which would have played to the listeners strengths, only difference was that this year denman took first run on the listener and although it wasnt a wide margin runaway success (as most races like that arent), he never really looked in much trouble of losing and didnt look like hed had any sort of hard race.
Kauto star has proved himself to be a great champion, but Denman looks like the first horse to line up against him who may be within 10lbs of him and with any class in the gold cup looking at other races, at least denmans presence in the field keeps the potential for a decent race, because kauto has already proved one time too many that exotic dancer is no match for him and the rest on theirbest days a far from him.
I’d rather look back on Kauto Star and say " remember when he beat denman in the gold cup, that was brilliant" than "remember when kauto star beat that jonjo o’niell horse (who kicking king, best mate and war of attrition would probably have beat too), what was his name again!"
I wouldnt back either horse against each other as they are shorter than I like to bet, but denman is the only thing saving this years gold cup from being as bad as last years at the minute.
Excellent post Bullwark and I agree with most of what you are saying. However I wouldn’t be as quick to knock the opposition. I would rate Exotic Dancer head and shoulders above anything Best Mate and co raced against.
You have to consider that he has been a model of consistency and would probably have won 2 king George’s, a Gold Cup, The Paddy Power plus his other Cheltenham and Aintree wins had Kauto not been on the scene.
It would have been Exotic Dancer we would be discussing………to say the Gold Cup was rubbish with him around is a bit over the top. He finished well clear of the 3rd and would have been a decent winner without his lordship sticking his neb in the door.
Sure he doesn’t have the presence of Kauto Star but he is a very good horse and would run well in any Gold Cup………I have my doubts if Best Mate would have won 3 Gold Cups if he were around. He certainly never climbed the hill any better than ED does.
Denman has still got a lot to prove but he may well be the only horse within 10lbs of Kauto……I simply don’t believe he is or anything else for that matter………I have never heard a commentator get so carried away as when he won the King George "The best Steeple Chaser in the World" was his words as he passed the post.
Kauto has grabbed the imagination of millions of racegoers… even in pubs Asia everyone is talking about him…. mind you, ask half of them who the current UK Prime Minister is they wouldn’t have a clue
If he gets beat fair and square at Cheltenham I am going to be one very sad boy………not because I won’t be collecting the fortune I have riding on him but because he isn’t what I think he is…."The best horse to jump a fence since Arkle bar none"……….I have never bestowed that handle on any horse in 40 years and I would really really hate to be wrong. Unless of course Denman beats him by 10 lengths on the bridle which would make him the best steeple chaser of all time and I could live with that.
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