- This topic has 49 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 4 months ago by
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The problem with Timeform is that everyone has access to it so it’s value as a tool for finding an edge is diminished, but not eliminated. If you were the only one in the world who had access to it you’d clean up.
Geez are you on commission of sales or something Corm? You are obviously a punter that needs reassurance from others (Timeform) before you commit yourself to a bet! I am one of those that makes up my own decisions without the influence of others and Timeform are very influential! I beleive these Professional ratings services do nothing but cloud your own judgement and i get far more pleasure from finding my own winners than backing Timeforms top rated! each to their own though eh? Very diplomatically put if i say so myself!
TAPK,
Timeform is not all about the rating. You need their write ups to give the whole picture. I subscribe, but did not back Kauto Star in the King George. My bet on the day was Riverside Theatre each way.
The essay on Imperial Commander in Chasers And Hurdlers says "At nine Imperial Commander is only a year younger than Kauto Star and Denman, but has had a lighter career than either of those rivals and, with the latest crop of novice staying chasers looking to have plenty to prove, he looks a worthy favourite at this stage (meaning end of October) for the Gold Cup".
Which (as Kauto Star was rated 9 lbs ahead of Imperial Commander at the time) suggests, at some point this season, they thought we’d see Kauto Star on the downgrade.
Backed Imperial Commander at 11/2, now down to 7/2.
Ginge,
Taken from "TAPK"s Notes" 25th Nov 2009
"TAPK has been studying a lot of racing re-runs lately and a horse that has impressed me a lot is
Imperial Commander
!
I beleieve this fellow will win this seasons Gold Cup
but i also think he should not run again until the big day. Imperial is a fine athletic slightly long bodied powerful horse who is a clean jumper. His form figures show he loves Cheltenham.As much as he blotted his copybook in last years King George,i forgive him that as i believe in horses for courses.
I am well aware that it will take a good one to topple Kauto star who doesn"t seem to be deteriorating but i think he has reached his plateau
,
Imperial Commander has yet to reach his
.His time will come and i wont be worrying about the ground. £50 e/w at 12/1 and £50 e/w at 10/1 is a big bet for me!" I also backed him at 34"s on the machine
You stick to Timeform Ginge,i"ll stick to my own opinion!
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Timeform should employ you with write ups like that.
Mind you, you have also been miles of the mark saying things like Stearsby needed 3 miles which was knocked on the head today.
One thing you are right about though is pick your own.
Ratings are ok and Timeform can dig them out even when not top rated but so can we all.
Personally I’d rather know something is trying for it’s life than be told it’s 10lbs clear with Timeform or anyone else.
Each to their own though.
Timeform should employ you with write ups like that.
Mind you, you have also been miles of the mark saying things like Somersby needed 3 miles which was knocked on the head today./quote]
Fist i would be sacked after an hour at Timeform, "Do we all agree Kauto star gets the magic 190 lads?" Dont be stupid i say! Now thats not how we speak here your Majesty! So we all agree on 190 then? Do we ! Show him the door!
Somersby will run over 3m one day,he should have won today mind!
TAPK,
So how do you study form?
Timeform is a form book, in exactly the same way as the Racing Post, racingpost.com, sportinglife.com or Raceform helps a punter.
Only Timeform (imo) is better, more detailed and more accurate than any of those.
Unless a subscriber pays for Timeform "Jury", (which by the way shows an excellant profit over the years) Timeform DO NOT tell subscribers who to back.
Just because there is a "top rated" horse, DOES NOT make it a "tip". Subscribers who just back the Timeform top rated without: looking at temperament / consistency, course / goes right / left handed, is a good or bad jumper, the trip / stamina, pace, ground conditions, jockey, trainer; and above all VALUE. – Will NOT make a profit. There are too many subscribers for that; and bookmakers odds compilers (Peter Michael included) also study Timeform, and use it to make the odds.
Value Is EverythingTAPK,
So how do you study form?
Ginge,
Thats the million dollar question! What i will say though is i look for what i call "Marker horses" that draw collateral form to a particular race but my number 1 key to success is unquestionably form!
Rather than Paper form,i prefer visual form, my last good winner came purely from visual formWest End Rocker
and he looked like a horse the Duke would have purchased for Peter Deeley!
Today i went for my interpretation of value, a horse who has top class form and yet traded at 25/1 inKalahari King
,he was virtually carried out at one point but stayed on again on ground softer than ideal,20/1 for the Ryanair is tempting! Had he been 10/1 i wouldn"t have touched him,thats how i sum up value really!
Somersby
is still the horse to take from the race mind as he is still showing inexperience,the penny will drop soon!
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Another thread hijacked. Recurring theme.
Totaly agree Smith,
Getting beyond a joke now, wouldn’t be surprised if he was the cause of some very good posters leaving.
Lads,
Excellent thread, very interesting. It’s a shame that it descends into the usual crap.
JohnJ
Another thread hijacked. Recurring theme.
Totaly agree Smith,
Getting beyond a joke now, wouldn’t be surprised if he was the cause of some very good posters leaving.
Tell you what Mr w, i"ll hand the Crown over to you as from now,i have worn it for 2yrs on here and like Corm says its becoming a bit of a joke the attention i recieve on here these days! Good luck to all those who can think for themselves, they are the ones that make this forum what it is and remember winning is everything at Horseracing!
Another thread hijacked. Recurring theme.
Totaly agree Smith,
Getting beyond a joke now, wouldn’t be surprised if he was the cause of some very good posters leaving.
Tell you what Mr w, i"ll hand the Crown over to you as from now,i have worn it for 2yrs on here and like Corm says its becoming a bit of a joke the attention i recieve on here these days! Good luck to all those who can think for themselves, they are the ones that make this forum what it is and remember winning is everything at Horseracing!
TAPK – dont let the buggers get you down! You may be insufferably smug and a first class know-it-all but you know your stuff, are always worth a giggle and people take you far too seriously. Carry on posting!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
- Total Posts 17716
I have never subscribed to Timeform. From what I have read, in the preinternet age, the Timeform black book was essential reading for form students, and I have always regarded it as having some sort of mystical quality based on superior race analysis. However, I noticed Betfair released more detailed Timeform commentary for the King George. It was interesting but didn’t tell me anything not already in the public domain.
Maybe subscribers get something extra, but I guess, as a lot of Timeform stuff seems to be free, it is no longer as valuable as it once was in providing an edge over the average punter. And finding out that Kauto has been downgraded from 190 to 165+ is not earth-shattering.
Can I live a full life without subscribing? Perhaps I will never know if I don’t subscribe.I notice Ginger seems to find it useful so maybe I am missing out.
Excellent Post Kasparov,if you compare Max Clifford as the Timeform of publicity you will realise there"s no mystique! Their rating of Kauto star just about sums them up and yet the faithful who took the 4/7 about him achieving the 5 timer will still carry on subscribing,more fool them!
This is the sort of post that really get’s people’s backs up because basically you are spouting garbage to try and make a pointless point. Your visual abilities told us the Nightingale was going to win the same race which makes you what?
You say you prefer vusual form, a lot of people do, myself included but paper form is essential for others who don’t know how to visually read a race.
So they chose to read form using either the Sportinglife, The Racing Post or Timeform or some other rag.
Timeform is light years ahead of any other paper form because it’s made up from
visual form
from some of the best judges in racing.
Just because you or I don’t use it doesn’t mean it’s not worth the money to others. To the people who use and have done so for decades it’s their bible and worth every penny.
"Timeform is light years ahead of any other paper form because it’s made up from visual form from some of the best judges in racing."
That used to be the case Fist but you have to be a graduate these days.
Colin
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Ok then I’ll put it another way
"Timeform is light years ahead of any other paper form because it’s made up from visual form from some of the best 4 eyed nerd judges in racing"
How’s’at!!!!!!!!
TAPK,
Please forget about telling us about your latest winner, it was not the question I asked.
I asked how do you study form?
Everyone would rather judge form by watching the race themselves.
My question is about how you come to an opinion about a horse you have NOT seen yourself?
You can’t have seen every race.What products do you use?
Value Is Everything
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