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These new numbers appear to be a performance rating judged on one race. Has Kauto Star gone from the best chaser around to the third best by nearly half a stone in the space of one race? I’m not sure.
Two races, I think you’ll find (QM and GC)
Digressing?
Yep winning the King George doing handstands was definately going backwards 
Digressing???
Surely the word everyone wants here is REgressing?!
Colin (and I am SOBRE!!)
Phil Smith got caught up in the hype.
Ginge
What an idiotic thing to say.
I have read on a few threads now you banging on about how Kauto didn’t run his race and how Denman has been over-rated as a result.
How has last year’s Gold Gup worked out?
2nd- Exotic Dancer, done nothing all year
3rd- Turpin Green, matched in running at 65 to win a 3-runner egg & spoon race at Haydock where the leader stopped to nothing and the danger fell
4th – Monkerhostin, done nothing
5th – Cane Brake – who?
6th – State of Play, done nothing.
I could go on.
He didn’t beat this lot out of sight, he won by 2.5, 2.5, 5, 0.75 and 0.5, and the rest were all pretty close up.
I reckon he achieved about as much in finishing 7 lengths behind Denman on Friday.I am a massive fan of Kauto Star, but Paul Nicholls has said he was beaten by a better horse, the official handicapper says he was beaten by a better horse, so why should you know any better than the rest of us?
That’s not true Paul Nicholls said no such thing..He said " He was beaten by a better horse on the day" there’s a huge difference.
Using Exotic Dancer is the context you are is absolute rubbish…….the horse was injured, the yard has problems and he’s hardly had a fair crack at the whip to show anyone what he can do this season.
What about Kauto Star’s victory in the King George? was that not one of the best performances seen on a racourse for years? He beat Old Vic and never broke sweat……Old Vic beat the second and the Listener further thean Denman did in the Lexus did……….all were at the same weights………..strictly on form that puts Kauto 10 lengths min ahead of Denman……..you can play with form to win an argument.
You should be asking yourself if this Denman is such a great galloper why the heck ws the second half of the race run so slow 7 second slower than last year…….in comparison to the first half 1.4 seconds faster….The simple answer is as Ruby said the ground was dreadful tacky as hell and Kauto coudn’t jump in it or get going in it…that only makes Denman a btter horse on **** ground…the form isn’t worth a hoot and is no more close to the truth than flying in the air………..Kauto Star ran one of the worst races of his life…partly to do with Denman but more to do with he wasn’t quite himslef for some reason and the ground………..no way on gods earth would NC get within 15 lengths of Kauto Star and that says it all……..he’ll be back and you can take that to the bank…….some fan if you dismiss him that easily………
I don’t see the relevance of bringing last year’s Gold Cup into this. It’s hardly as if Kauto’s rating is pinned on that one performance.
Digressing???
Surely the word everyone wants here is REgressing?!
Colin (and I am SOBRE!!)
Ha ha yeah you’re absolutely right. I take the blame I started it and I was sober too.
. In my defence I was trying to do about five things at once at the time – ask a man to multi task and you’re gonna get errors. 
I’m gonna hypothesise here. Would we say that NC is a better/worse horse than Monet’s Garden? I rate them about the same, Monet’s maybe a couple of lbs superior. On that line thru Monet’s, NC is overated by about 8lbs in my opinion. NC has run a cracker, but would never manage to win elsewhere off of 178. Denman taking it from the front clouds the form somewhat.
People seem to be forgetting that after Kauto Star’s Gold Cup win, Exotic Dancer went to Aintree, in a small field with no pace (which wouldn’t suit him: I remember lots of layers opposing him) and totally outclassed them. That proved to me he’s a very good horse.
And he ran well in The Betfair Bowl this season anyway?
As for this year’s Gold Cup, my opinion is that Kauto Star ran very lacklustre – he performed in a way that was similar to when he ran at Aintree on his seasonal debut: being pushed along a long way out (yet before stamina was an issue), jumping poorly (yet only going at a moderate pace) and just staying on. C’mon… we know he’s better than that.
Remember that after his prep. race for the Gold Cup he drifted massively on Betfair after he was discovered to have an infection. It was apparently all cleared up and didn’t interrupt his training but… Well, I’m surprised the folks on the Betfair forum haven’t made more of it!
I still don’t think he’d have won. The way Denman ran just proved that he was made for The Gold Cup. I just hope that now Kauto Star isn’t in a twilight zone: he’s lost some of his pace since he’s been trained for 3m (he couldn’t win a Tingle Creek now!) yet he clearly isn’t a natural 3miler – compared to natural 3milers like Denman. If I owned him, I’d consider The Ryannair Chase next year.
Kauto Dancer 7/2 for next season…fill your boots!!!!!
Some people have already got him on the scrap heap,wins a Gold Cup and then hes a runner up and hes finished!!!!
His jumping let him down he was losing lengths at his fences,and you can only wonder if hed jumped better would he have got closer to Denman(who was tying up)and didnt have an ideal prep coming up to the race.
You will all disagree with me but i think he jumped better for Sam Thomas,and if i owned him i would use Graham Lee (he can get a sketchy jumper to relax and find a stride)
Just my opinion…
Kauto is perfectly capable of winning another Gold Cup. He’ll run to a maximum of 175 in a Gold Cup (IMO) but in many years that will win a horse the Gold Cup, 173ish seems to be the average winning rating in the last few years (my ratings).
7/2 is far to short a price to be backing him for next season anything can happen until then,But if they do take each other on again i will have my pennys on kauto slamming denman,he just wasnt right on the day.
7/2 is far to short a price to be backing him for next season anything can happen until then,But if they do take each other on again i will have my pennys on kauto slamming denman,he just wasnt right on the day.
To be honest I’m struggling with this argument.
Kauto ran to a similar mark to last year. Take Denman out and (providing he doesn’t belt the last) he wins by 3 – 4 lengths from Neptune Collonges with the rest way back. People would’ve been hailing the superstar once again. I don’t quite get how he wasn’t himself.
Yep he didn’t jump great but he sometimes doesn’t, he’s belted two or three fences in races last season it never stopped him winning his races brilliantly.
Denman was just too powerful a galloper on the day for Kauto to cope with. I think Kauto has run to a normal Gold Cup winning rating over a trip further than his best, he’s some horse but its all about conditions. You wouldn’t have expected Dayjur to win a Derby now would you?
High Ken, there is a counter arguement. Because French horses are trained -not necessarilly run – from an earlier age, their bone structure and muscles are better conditioned than traditional British/Irish stores. Therefore they can stand more racing. This point was made by Mcnae/Willoughby on RUK this evening.
The problem with French breds is that you can only go to the well so many times, and many of them are losing their form by the age of 8. Yet another reason none of them win the National.
As pointed out Kauto was raced far too much from an early age, and they are not built to stand excessive racing and keep their form at the same time.
As for Kauto not losing form. The proximity of a horse like Halcon who has performed very poorly at Cheltenham in the past and was again off the bridle from an awful long way out hardly makes this a classic Gold Cup renewal.
7/2 is far to short a price to be backing him for next season anything can happen until then,But if they do take each other on again i will have my pennys on kauto slamming denman,he just wasnt right on the day.
You can get 4/1 easily for next year 1/4 the odds EW………I couldn’t resist that. Way I look at is the worst comes to the worst he finished 2nd to Denman…….so you lose a years interest on the cash……If by any chance he falls I would probably bet him anyway.
I just red an atricle in the racing post and Ruby said he was beaten at half way and the horse didn’t feel right……..blind man running for a bus could see he wasn’t himself.
I personally never felt he was going well at any stage when watching the race and knew his fate long before Ruby asked him to go.
Lot of people on here don’t want to face the fact that the race was inconclusive. The day they know better than Ruby there will be a blue moon in the sky.
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