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Problem is that to Aiden good ground is still not quick enough, after his laboured performance in Irish 2000g they will only now run him if the ground has the word firm in the description.
I think the further into the Autumn we go, the less likely we are to see Gleneagles run again in Europe. The Moulin, Irish Champion, Champion or QE2 are the only really viable races now open to him and how many times in recent years have they had firm in their respective going description? Potentially the only race where he is likely to get his conditions will be in the Breeders Cup – where hopefully he might have to take on the top US turf horse Wise Dan.
The great horses of the past won the same great races but they also beat other great horses (of all ages) and in doing so did it on different ground surfaces and those are currently two big glaring omissions from Gleneagles CV.
That is why I can’t (at this stage anyway) rate him as a great horse.
Oh boy – that went pear shaped in a big way.
Fair play to the winner though as she pulled harder than the favourite did early on and just out battled him.
Question, bigger shock than The Brigadier being beaten?
Gleneagles and The Grey Gatsby are probably best on a firm surface let alone good-soft.
Golden Horn and Time Test are not 100% certain to act on this either – although do expect them to.
Cougar Mountain acts on it, but Dick Doubtywylie is in there to ensure it’s a test and have severe doubts Cougar will stay a truly run 1m2f on it. Arabian Queen may not stay either if she does not settle, front runner so a pace maker is not ideal. Strangely, the Australian Criterion is the only one sure to be suited by both ground and distance. Cheek pieces might be a sign not showing his best on the gallops but woth a chance.I’ve backed Time Test to win outright 5/1 and 6/4 betting without Golden Horn. Plus Criterion @ 18/1 and Aabian Queen betting without.
50/1 betting without.
And…Managed to get a bit of 189/1 last night (160.64/1 with reduction factor).
Was only a bit though. 
Value Is EverythingDettori has just blamed the ground (he couldn’t quicked in it) and the fact the he pulled hard early – fair comment but he didn’t pull as hard as the winner did and he still headed her and she battled back to win.
Ground was also blamed for Time Test’s run and the trainer of the TGG said he will now be kept to races on quicker ground. I think the ground must be on the tacky side as most of the winners have been pretty handy and the hold up horses have struggled to get involved.
As much as we criticized Aiden’s decision, I think it was the right one for him to make in hindsight.
Maybe Gleneagles would have beaten Golden Horn.
It is hard to say Golden Horn ran below form, since he ran similarly to his recent meeting in relation with the Grey Gatsby.
Arabian Queen was a ton behind on the ratings but managed to pop up here and kill my early forecast on the race. She never seems to run the same race twice, having floored High Celebrity to win the old Cherry Hinton last year, she has won a group 2 and a group 3 nicely, yet put some less than stellar efforts in along the way.
I can’t believe she has improved enough to win this, the best explanation would be a freak result, with below par efforts from Golden Horn and The Grey Gatsby in the mix. It will be interesting how the assessor rates her after this shocker.
As I had always said, I filed the Timeform rating for Time Test, which had him equal with Golden Horn post Derby, into a bin labelled “Bull***t” The time was good but the form didn’t bear it out. Roger Charlton was apparently bullish about his chances but I thought he had a desperate amount to improve after a handicap and a group 3 win and he has barely managed to finish ahead of pacemaker Dick Doughtywylie, a 100/1 shot who must have been two stone behind Time Test on Timeform ratings.
A crazy result and a bubble burst, but my selection, The Grey Gatsby, rewarded the ante-post each-way support and paid a lot better than a heavy win bet on Golden Horn.
I suspect that punctures Golden Horn’s Arc prospects and it’s more reason to be happy with Jack Hobbs each-way at 10/1. 8/1 is now the best price on Hobbsie and I would take that in a heartbeat. I can’t see him starting bigger than 4/1 now. Golden Horn is out to 10/1 with Ladbrokes and the alarm bells must be sounding, along with concerns whether we will see the Derby winner race again.
Injury found, early retirement anyone?
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Difficult to make sense of it all. My initial feeling is that the winner just ran a freakish that she is unlikely to ever repeat, bit like Solemia did in the Arc a few years back. I’ve seen some suggesting that the fillies might be better but that’s utter bollocks in my opinion, this looks more like a one-off to me. Time will tell I guess.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Gingertipster wrote:</div>
Gleneagles and The Grey Gatsby are probably best on a firm surface let alone good-soft.
Golden Horn and Time Test are not 100% certain to act on this either – although do expect them to.
Cougar Mountain acts on it, but Dick Doubtywylie is in there to ensure it’s a test and have severe doubts Cougar will stay a truly run 1m2f on it. Arabian Queen may not stay either if she does not settle, front runner so a pace maker is not ideal. Strangely, the Australian Criterion is the only one sure to be suited by both ground and distance. Cheek pieces might be a sign not showing his best on the gallops but woth a chance.I’ve backed Time Test to win outright 5/1 and 6/4 betting without Golden Horn. Plus Criterion @ 18/1 and Aabian Queen betting without.
50/1 betting without.
And…Managed to get a bit of 189/1 last night (160.64/1 with reduction factor).
Was only a bit though. 
It’s often worth a silly tickle on these races. Some people like backing odds on shots but I don’t touch them. I was concerned that the rains would spoil the Grey Gatsby’s chance but Gleneagles coming out sort of compensated for that.
Well done backing the winner at huge odds, I wouldn’t have seen her winning in my wildest dreams. She’ll probably go up the ratings a shed load, run somewhere at shortish odds and get absolutely creamed out of sight in defeat!
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
I really do dislike Good to Soft going. It’s neither here nor there and I think we may just have found out (including G himself) that Golden Horn is a pure top of the ground horse at the highest level. He did win his maiden on good to soft though.
More rain due tonight, may pass by without much dropping so I will keep myself from backing anything till tomorrow morning.After being in a state of shock I come to the conclusion that it was a freak result!!
I can’t believe the filly has improved that much!!
I tend to agree with Steve and put it in the don’t take the form of this race to literally.It is a shame to see Golden Horn get beat though and I agree I can’t see him running in the Arc
A bit quick to write Time Test off Steve.
TGG wasn’t that far ahead of TT.Blackbeard to conquer the World
Maybe Gleneagles would have beaten Golden Horn.
It is hard to say Golden Horn ran below form, since he ran similarly to his recent meeting in relation with the Grey Gatsby.
Arabian Queen was a ton behind on the ratings but managed to pop up here and kill my early forecast on the race. She never seems to run the same race twice, having floored High Celebrity to win the old Cherry Hinton last year, she has won a group 2 and a group 3 nicely, yet put some less than stellar efforts in along the way.
I can’t believe she has improved enough to win this, the best explanation would be a freak result, with below par efforts from Golden Horn and The Grey Gatsby in the mix. It will be interesting how the assessor rates her after this shocker.
As I had always said, I filed the Timeform rating for Time Test, which had him equal with Golden Horn post Derby, into a bin labelled “Bull***t” The time was good but the form didn’t bear it out. Roger Charlton was apparently bullish about his chances but I thought he had a desperate amount to improve after a handicap and a group 3 win and he has barely managed to finish ahead of pacemaker Dick Doughtywylie, a 100/1 shot who must have been two stone behind Time Test on Timeform ratings.
A crazy result and a bubble burst, but my selection, The Grey Gatsby, rewarded the ante-post each-way support and paid a lot better than a heavy win bet on Golden Horn.
I suspect that punctures Golden Horn’s Arc prospects and it’s more reason to be happy with Jack Hobbs each-way at 10/1. 8/1 is now the best price on Hobbsie and I would take that in a heartbeat. I can’t see him starting bigger than 4/1 now. Golden Horn is out to 10/1 with Ladbrokes and the alarm bells must be sounding, along with concerns whether we will see the Derby winner race again.
Injury found, early retirement anyone?
Autumn ground in France is pretty much like today’s so I doubt we will see Golden Horn on it
Dettori has just blamed the ground (he couldn’t quicked in it) and the fact the he pulled hard early – fair comment but he didn’t pull as hard as the winner did and he still headed her and she battled back to win.
Ground was also blamed for Time Test’s run and the trainer of the TGG said he will now be kept to races on quicker ground. I think the ground must be on the tacky side as most of the winners have been pretty handy and the hold up horses have struggled to get involved.
As much as we criticized Aiden’s decision, I think it was the right one for him to make in hindsight.
Times today suggest it is no softer than Good, but that could be because of the strong tail wind.
So either ground is not as soft. Jockeys on hold up horses allowing prominent racers to go too far in front (wrongly thinking they’re going too fast).
Or
Hold up jockeys not allowing for the strong tail wind which enables prominent runners to keep going (again, wrongly thinking they’re going too fast).
Or
Combination of the two.
Value Is EverythingThat was my thinking regard Time Test being out the back ginge.
Blackbeard to conquer the World
GH never really settled even after he stopped pulling, but I wouldn’t rule out that he’s been beaten by a better horse on the ground and on the day. It was the first time in a year the filly has run on ground with cut, also, her owner is no braggart or fool, and he had a strong belief she was well up to this class. Time will tell.
I’d believed GH would not be troubled by some cut; looks like I was wrong, and as Mr Caution says, the Arc looks a bit of a dream now, even to see him run never mind win.
There is always the chance he had something of an off day, but the placed horses make that look less likely
Well done, Ginger, you don’t get many of those in a punting lifetime – congratulations.
Question, bigger shock than The Brigadier being beaten?
No , because Brigadier Gerard ( by that stage ) was considered
unbeatable – even by that year’s Derby winner . Such were the
shock waves it created back then that plates , cups and saucers were still rattling
by the time most families sat down for tea . It even made the teatime
and evening national news bulletins.As for Golden Horn : the horse had every chance and the filly just showed
an outstanding resolve to win the race – and so , dare I say , did Silvestre De Sousa –
who rode like a man possessed – making Frankie look like an old man by comparison .Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
That was my thinking regard Time Test being out the back ginge.
tbh Nathan,
Time Test just wasn’t in the same form. Travelled well enough for a long way, just didn’t find anything. Sometimes they just run poorly for no apparent reason.Value Is Everything
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