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He may well have been the "greatest ever jockey", I wouldn’t know because it was way before my time, but as a pundit, he leaves a lot to be desired. Yes he is good when he goes to a yard and unlike any of the Channel 4 team, he can actually sit and a horse and tell us how he thinks it is. But the man seems to constantly mix up his form and races and often totally contradicts himself.
Saturday was a prime example when he kept referring to Joe Lively as having a lot to make up with Star de Mohaison from their Sun Alliance run. Right race john, but they ran in it 2 years apart so there was no form there. What also surprised me was that Jim "Know it all" McGrath failed to correct him either time.
Also he then tips up Tidal Bay despite telling us he thinks there is something amiss with the horse and that in his opinion it is hurting when it runs.
While I don’t watch The Morning Line or C4 racing for the tips, I do expect people who are paid to do a job, to do it professionally and to put in a bit of work and pity any punter who does follow the "advice" given out on the show. Rant over.I have said for years that Francome’s views are often contradictory. His theories and reasonings are like his hair – all over the place.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
John Francome, lost it? When did he have it?
Greatest Jockey? Scu was a better jockey the; AP, Walsh, Choc are now.
You are right, he is good when he’s looking around a yard. But he knows nothing about form. I remember when he first started with C4, Jim McGrath used to put him right all the time. I suspect he’s been told not to now, as it does not look good telly. Unless it is some inside information his tips are poor, always has been. Sometimes it is obvious he has not spent enough time reading form. Not a bad presenter and good sense of humour, apparently women like him! He knows a little about conformation but I do not listen to his opinion. There are too many ex-jockeys on TV.
I think one bloke from Swindon should be replaced by another bloke from Swindon.
Mark
Value Is EverythingContrary to the above opinions, I think Francome is good – I enjoy listening to him more than most on C4 (and more than anyone on BBC).
He might not know the form book inside out, but they have other members of the team for that. What he does provide is an insight into race-riding, tactics etc., and by doing so adds to the coverage, imo. He also adds a welcome element of humour (as does Thommo, but in his case we’re laughing at him)…
His tips might be useless (though he does come up with the odd outsider – throw enough darts and one’ll hit the bull), but if you’re relying on the telly for tips you shouldn’t really be punting.
As for his ability as a jockey, I’m surprised this is being called into question – a superb natural horseman.
His only minus point is that my wife fancies the pants off him….
Francome was an excellent jockey, just in my opinion not The Greatest. The 4 mentioned being better.
Did not mean to call his jockeyship in to question.
Just calling in to question whether he was the Greatest Jockey. Top 10 yes.Your point about his jockeyship insight is well made Benny.
Hope your wife gets over her lust. If Francome knows he’ll be round your place fast! Tell her Cat is on the market again too!
Mark
Value Is Everything"What also surprised me was that Jim "Know it all" McGrath failed to correct him either time"
Perhaps Jimbo is losing it to.
Francome was an excellent jockey, just in my opinion not The Greatest. The 4 mentioned being better.
Did not mean to call his jockeyship in to question.
Just calling in to question whether he was the Greatest Jockey. Top 10 yes.Your point about his jockeyship insight is well made Benny.
Hope your wife gets over her lust. If Francome knows he’ll be round your place fast! Tell her Cat is on the market again too!
Mark
Sorry Mark, but while comparing different generations of jockeys is impossible, it’s easy to compare Francome to Scudamore and the former was in a different league in terms of ability. What Scu did was become the first to ensure total fitness was the biggest weapon in a jockey’s armoury and that’s how he was able to be more prolific than Jonny F, but to say he was more talented would be massively off beam.
On the other hand, he was certainly more reliable, and that’s why punters were better off following him blindly; I’d have no problem with anyone taking that point of view.
Francome as a pundit is a curate’s egg; he’s colourful enough to be good listening but the gaps in his knowledge of the formbook are often gaping. I’m a fan tbh, but would never pay attention to his picks.
I’ve said before that he’s the only reason I have the Morning Line on in the background on a Saturday. Granted he knows nothing about betting, but occasionally he’ll say something which makes complete sense and change your opinion of a horse or a race- he could well be right about Tidal Bay as he certainly has a strange head carriage and way of jumping- but agree that it’s then bizarre to tip him.
I remember him saying something about a high-profile big-race favourite last season to the effect that he wouldn’t win beause of his jumping- it may well have been Granit Jack. Another gem was his assertion on the Flat that horses who sweat between their hind legs seldom win good races. For these occasional pearls, I can forgive him a lot.Francome was an excellent jockey, just in my opinion not The Greatest. The 4 mentioned being better.
Did not mean to call his jockeyship in to question.
Just calling in to question whether he was the Greatest Jockey. Top 10 yes.Your point about his jockeyship insight is well made Benny.
Hope your wife gets over her lust. If Francome knows he’ll be round your place fast! Tell her Cat is on the market again too!
Mark
Sorry Mark, but while comparing different generations of jockeys is impossible, it’s easy to compare Francome to Scudamore and the former was in a different league in terms of ability. What Scu did was become the first to ensure total fitness was the biggest weapon in a jockey’s armoury and that’s how he was able to be more prolific than Jonny F, but to say he was more talented would be massively off beam.
On the other hand, he was certainly more reliable, and that’s why punters were better off following him blindly; I’d have no problem with anyone taking that point of view.
Francome as a pundit is a curate’s egg; he’s colourful enough to be good listening but the gaps in his knowledge of the formbook are often gaping. I’m a fan tbh, but would never pay attention to his picks.
Rory,
Must admit I only remember Francome towards the end of his career. He had style, balance and possibly better in a finish. But Scu often outrode Francome out in the country. This might have been something to do with Martin Pipe, when frot running tactics and fitness came to the fore. When deciding the best jockey, reliability is one of the primary considerations. It is how a jockey uses his talents that matter.My point about AP, W and RT is that Francome is no longer the greatest jockey, that’s if you think he was even the greatest of his generation.
But opinions is what it is all about.
Mark
Value Is EverythingI have said for years that Francome’s views are often contradictory. His theories and reasonings are like his hair – all over the place.
Johnny Francome is as colourful as "Oh so Riskys" silks, he has led his life the same way, he has a unique ability to translate the feel of a class
horse he has just ridden work on, to us armchair experts with ease, i particularly remember him riding "Exotic dancer" at JonJo"s and explaining how the horse was leading then changing his legs on the gallops prior to running 2nd in the Gold cup, fascinating stuff from as natural a horseman as you will see! John being from a pony trained background can dismount a horse as easily as mounting one at speed
but "The Reject" showed even the best can get caught out! We can only imagine the scenario of the Stable lass and the bale of hay, but Johnny
is the "Sadlers Wells" for breaking in young fillies! yep he is the Greatest
and if he gets his form wrong now and then! So what! Just remember he can only say so much on TV, if he were to tell all his little secrets
it would have to be broadcast after 9pm and it wouldn"t be called "The Morning Line Then we would all have to go to Church Sunday morning!Wasn’t Francome retired when Scu started riding for Pipe.
Francome is still an asset to channel 4, apart from his iconoclastic charm he can still impart knowledge to those of us who have never sat on a horse. They do need a clear out though Thommo would be first to go, contributes nothing of any value which would be in common with his tipping lines. McCririck as well with his tired, tired act.
I noticed Malcom Jefferson snubbed Thommo on saturday, suprisingly that’s only the second time I’ve seen that the first time being Ben Hanbury probably 20 years ago.
May be Francome was retired don’t know Spitfire, but still feel Scu outrode him more often than the other way around. That is; outrode in the whole race not neccessarily the finish.
Mark
Value Is EverythingI remember one of the very early Racing Post’s at Kempton, Scu on Bonanza Boy, Bonanza was virtually tailed off and Scu just would not give up on him, amazing ride and I reckon Francome like most others in the same position would have either pulled Bonanza up or gone through the motions.
If Betfair had been up and going then Bonanza would have slid to 250 at least.
Despeite my rant about him yesterday, I do remember him coming up with one of the funniest lines ever during a Newmarket meeting last year. I think there was a heavy downpour and a some blokes had white hoods on to protect themselves from the rain and he made a comment about being worried for Josh Apiapi for a minute. Maybe he should just do the paddock commentary or sit alongside whoever is calling the race and chip in as and when its needed, though he does alos go too native when it comes to criticising jockeys apart from the odd time when he does make a negative comment.
i thought it was brilliant that year when
Scu broke his arm and Francome stopped when they were both equal so they could share the title.
Humour must be in short supply if that was one of the funniest lines ever IMO ( was Thommo not working that day (?!), and typically politically incorrect to put it mildly.In fact echoes of when Francome was made to apologise to Irish viewers for another ‘ hilarious’ crack ( not)
Great jockey with record to prove it but don’t forget the Banks indiscretions for which he was rightly banned.Impossible to compare eras but if you have to my impression is that McCoy and Walsh are achieving more.Entertaining contributor but generally hopeless tipster who concentrates too much on what a horse looks like without being able to assess what it has actually achieved, this is almost certainly through lack of preparation.
Humour must be in short supply if that was one of the funniest lines ever IMO ( was Thommo not working that day (?!), and typically politically incorrect to put it mildly.In fact echoes of when Francome was made to apologise to Irish viewers for another ‘ hilarious’ crack ( not)
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Oh please!!
Political correctness – 8 out of 10 people will tell you what you can do with that.
Francome is a top guy but I admit he hasn’t a clue what he’s talking about half the time.
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