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I could say a lot about this, but won’t.
But in short there’s a reason why Labour MPs like Angela Rayner get so abusive and call Tories “scum” but the Tories don’t do it to Labour.
Politics is one big game to the Tories – worst thing a Labour government can do to Tories is make them pay more tax so they can’t any longer afford to change the 4X4 every year or have that second foreign holiday.
Worst thing a Tory government can do to Labour voters is make NHS cuts which result in the deaths of loved ones.
That’s the difference.
A lot of people in the North think Margaret Thatcher’s policies had fatal consequences for some in their region.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Thought better of you, Ian; using pathetic stereotypes.
Do you really believe Conservative voters are all well off 4X4 drivers?My grandparents lived in a council house. Grandad was a brickie, grandmother a servant. Combined wage well below average; could not afford a 4 wheeled car let alone a 4X4. In fact, in his younger days Grandad used to cycle many miles to and from work. In their older days only a war pension kept them over the limit for getting benefits. Didn’t stop them voting Conservative.
Mum worked at a Coal merchant’s, didn’t have a car until into her 30’s and then a second-hand Morris 1100. Dad a carpet fitter with only the shop’s van until going self-employed – then a 1300 engined cortina estate. Didn’t stop them voting Conservative either.
…And me. Driving a mini-first. We are all what Labour insist on calling “working class” but we all vote Conservative. People vote Conservative from all walks of life. So please don’t do this “Conservative voter” nonsense.
Value Is EverythingWell, tbf, I have stated in the past that about a third of the working classes vote Tory (even though they’d be better off under Labour).
I should thank them, actually, as I’ve personally been better off financially under the Tories all my adult life.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Britain was in a right mess prior to Mrs T taking over. Businesses making massive losses. Unions calling strikes every 5 minutes. Secondary picketing chaos, rubbish piling up in the streets, miners causing power cuts and a car and many others industries unable to modernise. International Monetary Fund coming to Britain’s rescue. etc etc.
Value Is EverythingIt’s all about opinions, GT, and I’m not saying I agree with all the northern working class sentiment against her I described above.
I don’t want a bunch of brain dead union leaders holding the country to ransom any more than I want a public school establishment elite calling the shots.
What is definitely true is she shifted the epicentre of British politics permanently.
The 1974-9 Labour government was considered quite moderate in its day.
But the values it espoused and the top rates of taxation would be denounced as Marxist in 2022 Britain.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"‘So please don’t do this “Conservative voter” nonsense.’
Please think back to this comment next time you start typing a sentence that begins with ‘the left’.
“But the values it espoused and the top rates of taxation would be denounced as Marxist in 2022 Britain.”
Thatcher is supposed to have said that her greatest accomplishment was New Labour. And if she did say this (and I have neither the time nor the inclination to verify her statement), she was correct.
By moving the entire political landscape to the right, aided and abetted by the billionaire-owned media, she ensured that true left-wing politics would never again appeal to the electorate. Tax became a four-letter word and the myth of “getting what you deserve” out of life became mainstream ideology.
It’s all a load of b******s, really.
Not the same Richard and you know it.
The words “The Left” doesn’t make any comment on its demographic. It is made up of working class, middle class, any class and classless. Just like the Conservatives.Where have I bracketed Labour voters as all a certain type?
Indeed, it is actually instead the Labour Party that likes to portray itself as the “party for the working class”, despite an increasing middle class and higher wage vote share.
Value Is EverythingDon’t be so hard on yourself, Glad’.
Yes, we know thinking it’s all the fault of the billionaire owned right wing media is wrong and outdated b******s.But we forgive you.
Value Is EverythingGinge- I like really like you as a poster but, let’s be honest, we’ll never agree on politics. 😎
The left and Labour are two different things, with some overlap. Two sweeping generalisations about the left right here in the same paragraph:
‘I know the left like to forget about all the good someone does if they make one (admittedly big) mistake – just look at how Labour treated Blair and SNP treat Salmond… And how the left want to get rid of statues.’
So Johnson can’t solve the Irish problem ( the one that man of us said would be a problem during the referendum debate but we were ignored) so he washes his hands of it. Says it’s everybody else’s problem. Which is what he does with everything in his life.. And nothing is ever his fault.
I’m fond of sweeping statements and generalisations myself – I often use them for dramatic effect (and in feeble attempts to be witty) and I never mind being pulled up on them.
I’m fair game.
Bit of a concern when some actually seem to believe what they generalise about, though.
There are many shades of political creeds right across the spectrum.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Two points
Anyone that thinks that 97% tax rates at any time are “fair” do not understand the British public. No one can possibly deny that Healeys boasting of this was stupid and I believe that was a big factor towards the sea change in this country, which was terrible mess. Even those on the left must have got the logic that driving out or completely and totally disincentivizing talent is madness. Tax “fairness” works both ways
The “billionaire” media drivel is just that. People can buy which ever paper they wish (unlike in most “socialist” societies) and its hardly Murdochs fault that virtually no one buys the Guardian, not too many the mirror, the independent failed in print form (although successful online it must be said) and only the mentally ill buy the Morning star
Thats it. the market chose. Tough
Dennis Healey was regarded as a moderate within the Labour Party of that time and that’s the point I was trying to make.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“Only the mentally ill buy the Morning Star.”
It was worth looking at when Cayton was there. That was all.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/tipster-in-a-class-of-his-own-1602198.html%3famp
Btw, I think many misunderstand how very high marginal rates of tax work.
1. Very few individuals are affected by them – such a tiny number that, in fact, they don’t raise meaningful amounts of tax revenue and they probably cause Labour governments more adverse publicity than they are worth.
2. Even those affected still get the same personal allowance as everyone else, pay basic rate the same as every else on earnings to that threshold. Ditto any intermediate higher rate. They only pay the very top rate on the remainder of their earnings above a level so high no individual arguably actually needs that amount of annual income in order to be able to lead a very comfortable life.
All of that said, the harsh fact is that hikes to the basic rate raise most as so many more people contribute at that level.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"
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