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Eh?
Please read again BigG, think you’ve got totally the wrong end of the stick.
Value Is Everything“I’d say a smidgen to the right of Blair and / or a smidgen to the left of Kenneth Clark.
That’s where the centre line has always been. Both Clark and Blair can legitimately claim to be Centrist politicians.”That’s fair enough – I can agree there.
But I must point out Jim Callaghan fought Thetcher in 1979 – Foot was 1983 after Labour reacted to defeat by lurching to the left, the same way the Tories lurched to the right after Blair annihilated them in 1997.
Political activists on both sides seldom see the world the way the world really is, though the Tories are rather better at pragmatism than Labour overall.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Its been noted of course that “long covid” is disproptionately affecting teachers, NHS workers and civil servants but not the self employed
Has it now, may I ask by whom?
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highwaysIn 1979 you had Thatcher for the Conservatives and Foot for Labour. Although Foot did have some more centre like Healy and Hattersley in his shadow cabinet; Foot himself (and others) was very much a non-electable neo-Communist similar to Corbyn and his leftist pals… And although Thatcher had those more in the centre like Kenneth Clark, Willie Whitelaw etc; Thatcher and others were more right wing than Johnson’s government.
In 1979 I was too young to vote, as I was leaving school, but thought Foot ran against Thatcher in the 1983 election and it was Callahan who had been PM from 76. Don’t know too much about the politics of the time but Dad said that the unions were to blame.
You've got to accentuate the positive.
Eliminate the negative.
Latch on to the affirmative.
Don't mess with mister in between.Just for BigG:
OK let’s take your post sentence by sentence:Big G Wrote: “That’s nothing more than a low blow Ginge, the Scot’s don’t hate or blame
“the English”, even though you love to spout this every time I talk about
a party”.I said the SNP – Sturgeon and Co – blame the English / “Westminster”, not the Scots generally. Although it is clear (from when they think England is not watching) some SNP voters do too.
BigG wrote: “They voted SNP because they never trusted the Conservative party
and the labour party, which had been trusted, became a joke. So the Scot’s
rightly said, on your bike mate, whether your Scottish or English.I am only pointing out that Scots think of themselves far more Scottish than they do British. Let’s be honest here, many in Scotland now feel the link between Scotland and the rest of Britain – predominately England – isn’t what it was. ie For most Scots Scotland feels a lot more Scottish than it does British. Do you disagree?
Although many English feel more English than they do British, we still (as a whole) feel very British too… So just as the English would be more inclined to vote for and / or believe an English (if there was one) or British Labour Party over say a European Labour Party (if there was one)… Scots are more inclined to vote for and / or believe the Scottish Labour Party (SNP) than the British Labour Party. That’s nothing against Scots, just human nature. But it has led to the SNP Party getting away with blaming “Westminster”.
BigG wrote: “I’ve also pointed out to you countlessssssss times, that not all SNP
voters wan’t or would vote for Independence, if they did it would
be a landslide, which it isn’t. Yes Sturgeon and the party would
like Independance, but it’s got bugger all to do with them, it’s
down to the people”Am glad you too realise that just because the SNP (plus referendumers Scottish Greens) get just short of 50% of the vote in the last election is no justification for another referendum. ie When taking SNP voters who would not vote for independence away from that “just under 50%”, you’re left with significantly less than a majority.
Yes, we agree it is down to the people of Scotland – when there is a mandate for a referendum.
That mandate should be either – as the then SNP leader agreed – once a generation. Or if the SNP + Greens gets MANY more votes in a general election. To be fair I’d say 60%. Do you think 60% is fair Big G?BigG wrote: “For a very “British” guy, you have a very low opinion of the Scots”.
No, the opposite. I just have a very low opinion of the SNP.
As someone who regards himself as British; Scotland – the country and its people – are part of me.
Don’t expect me to like a party intent on breaking up my Britain.Value Is EverythingLOL Should’ve remembered it was Jim Callaghan in 79. As a school kid we had to write to someone. So I chose the Prime Minister. Have a letter back from Jim (well his secretary) somewhere. Bloody glad now that I didn’t choose the other well known Jim like many of my class did, Jim’ll Fix It.
Value Is EverythingOkay Ginge, I know what you’re like, but to put the boot on the other foot, this
is what you wrote……..“True, no wonder at all BigG.
Take nationalism out of the SNP, and it is Scotland’s very own Labour Party.
Therefore because the Scots feel more Scottish than British, they’d rather vote for the Scottish Labour Party, even if some are not particularly “nationalist”. ie Of course Scots are going to trust a Scottish party more than they are going to trust a “British” party.And although am all for devolution; it has (with a few exceptions) enabled the SNP to take credit for anything good that’s happened in Scotland… And yet blame the English – sorry “Westminster” – for anything bad.”
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We had the Scottish labour party Ginge, they fought with Westminster as well, as they
should, but the whole party became a joke. People who had voted labour all their lives
got disgusted with the way it was heading and the shambles it was. Ed Miliband was a nice
guy, but no way should he have been leader of the Labour Party, his brother might have had
half a chance. Harriet Harman sandwiched for short periods either side of Miliband, and then
the daddy of them all, Corbyn.So you know that more Scot’s feel more Scottish than British, how come we didn’t get
independence last time.You say the Scot’s are going to trust a Scottish party rather than an English party.
If you’re saying that we’re not stupid enough to vote for someone who always was
nothing more than a lying blowhard, who kidded people that terrible things were going
to happen to the country staying in the EU, who promised people an NHS flowing with
extra cash we would save, instead costing us billions, or a completely unelectable
moron like Corbyn, then you’re damned right, we’re not that stupid.You even imply that scotland owe any success to England “it has (with a few exceptions) enabled the SNP to take credit for anything good that’s happened in Scotland… And yet blame the English – sorry “Westminster” – for anything bad.”
Could you be any more condescending?
You’re just about on a par with Jacob Rees-Mogg calling the Scottish Tory Leader
Douglas Ross “a lightweight” for rightfully stating the blindingly obvious that Boris
should go. That’s how much respect he shows to the Scottish leader of his own Party.
I’m not a great supporter of Ross, but he deserves respect.You always try to turn this round to Scotland’s being anti English, when we are ruled
by a Lunatic who has cost us Billions, and despite what a lot of people wanted, not me,
that our borders would be shut to all except those we wish to enter when the opposite
is the case. The numbers have never been higher.Try for a change Ginge to Understand that Scotland is sick of poor leadership from
Westminster, I’ve not seen many get the better of Sturgeon, whether she’s liked down
south or not, she’s no idiot. Even such as the TV breifings for Brexit, she was regularly
voted (even down south), as coming accross best.I think I know more about the people of Scotland than you Ginge, and although you won’t
let this go, you’ll always have the last word, maybe consider that the people of Scotland
might have half a clue about politics and who they can put their trust in.Vote for whoever you want Ginge, I’ll respect that, but stop double guessing what the Scot’s
think and their reasons for doing it.“Take nationalism out of the SNP, and it is Scotland’s very own Labour Party.”
The SNP gradually moved to the left. It was not always so. I can remember when they used to be dismissed as “Tartan Tories”!
I hadn’t listened to the Johnson/Darius Guppy telephone call for quite a while but listening to it again in light of all the claims of bullying makes it even more chilling.Especially Johnson’s reaction to it which is just one of amusement with no comprehension that what he had agreed to was wrong in any way. Out of interest can I ask what others peoples reaction to the tape is?
Moehat said:
Out of interest can I ask what others peoples reaction to the tape is?
Just confirms my opinion of Boris.
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highwaysYou’ve got the wrong end of the trunk now BigG. This is not what this thread should be about and only mentioned the Britishness in passing. Am only coming back again because you’ve misinterpreted or misrepresented my post / opinions. My last post on the subject:
Point am making is that (before and after Corbyn) the SNP and Labour parties had very similar left wing policies. Yes the Scottish Labour Party has a Scottish leader, but it has a British leader who is above that Scottish leader; ie the Labour party is not exclusively Scottish, it is the British (not English either) Labour Party. Therefore – in a country that sees itself as far more Scottish than British – it is going to vote for the party that’s seen as the left wing Scottish party – the SNP – instead. Of course it is not the only reason but it helps. As I’ve said, it’s only natural. If the boot were on the other foot England would be the same. Why so prickly about a little issue like that?
I said Scots don’t feel as British than the English do… And am not blaming anyone for that, you can blame this and previous Prime Ministers and Party leaders if you wish. You’re probably right, you’ll know better than me. Am just stating a simple fact. ie For whatever reason, IF Scots felt a strong pull of being British then they / you would not vote in such strong numbers for a party intent on breaking us up. For you to make out that is not the case is beyond belief.
Where did I say that Scotland owes its success to England? I didn’t. Yet more typical SNP style propaganda. All am saying is that instead of blaming “Westminster” all the time; the SNP should take responsibility for the things which are devolved to the Scottish Parliament. A parliament which the SNP have been in charge of for 15 years ffs. Why is that “patronising”?
Yes, you can legitimately blame “Westminster” for things that are not devolved, but not for things that are! Is that not fair?
Value Is EverythingDeleted.
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highways“Where did I say that Scotland owes its success to England? I didn’t. Yet more typical SNP style
propaganda.” Really?“And although am all for devolution; it has (with a few exceptions) enabled the SNP to take credit
for anything good that’s happened in Scotland… And yet blame the English – sorry “Westminster” – for
anything bad.”Try that one for size Ginger, are you actually trying to say that you didn’t imply that?,
actually you’re right, you just out and said it. You’re saying anything, oh, “with a ew exceptions”,
good in Scotland is because of Westminster, and your trying to deny that?. You couldn’t help yourself
from throwing in, “and yet blame the English – sorry Westminster”. Why would we not take credit for
anything good in Scotland ?This is serious Ginge, people’s lives and families depend on it, it’s got **** all to do with
Scot’s hating or disliking or whatever you want to call it, the English, it’s politics, and you’re
ruled, and unfortunately we are, by guys that don’t even hide that they don’t give a sh*t.I’m well aware that the Scottish Leader of the Conservatives has his boss above him. Of course it’s
the British Labour Party I didn’t even imply otherwise The point is that a senior member in the
Conservative, Rees-Mogg Government thinks as little of him to state on public TV that his opinion
doesn’t matter “he’s a lightweight”. He, Douglas Ross, said that Boris should stand down, are you
seriously saying he was wrong. He is ruining this country, the only person he is supporting is himself,
but not for much longer hopefully.Well your welcome to it buddy, but don’t expect us to accept it. I’d rather have a leader who
realises the benefit to ordiary people getting such as free prescriptions when they are ill, and
free parking when they go to see those that are ill in Hospital. It was costing me a tenner a day
down in Warwick to see my brother in law who was dying. Scandalous.Those (SNP’s) are principles,
along with others which make sense to me. It’s common sense.I know you’re going to come back with a break down of my post, but it’s my post, so knock
youself out mate.William Wragg is to discuss his accusations of bullying and blackmailing by government whips with the Metropolitan Police.
My guess is that Cressida will once again show just how dickless she is.
BigG quoting me: “Where did I say that Scotland owes its success to England? I didn’t. Yet more typical SNP style propaganda”.
BigG’s response: “propaganda.” Really?
And quoting me: “And although am all for devolution; it has (with a few exceptions) enabled the SNP to take credit for anything good that’s happened in Scotland… And yet blame the English – sorry “Westminster” – for anything bad”.
Try that one for size Ginger, are you actually trying to say that you didn’t imply that?,
actually you’re right, you just out and said it. You’re saying anything, oh, “with a few exceptions”,
good in Scotland is because of Westminster, and your trying to deny that?. You couldn’t help yourself
from throwing in, “and yet blame the English – sorry Westminster”. Why would we not take credit for
anything good in Scotland “?And me: No, that is not what that meant at all.
What I meant was in reality some of what is good and bad about Scotland is because of what the SNP have done and some of what is good and bad about Scotland is because of what the British Government has done. However, for all devolution is the right thing – it should’ve happened decades before it did – having two parliaments has enabled the SNP to get away with…All too often (ie “with a few exceptions”) we get the SNP “blaming Westminster” for stuff that they could change (because it’s within their powers of devolution)… And (with a few exceptions) taking all the credit for ALL the good stuff that’s not always devolutionised (for want of a better word).
THAT is what is meant in the piece you’ve quoted.
I am certainly not saying Scotland owes its success to England.
I am saying we are better together. You might not agree (as is your prerogative) but thankfully there are plenty of your countrymen that do.But don’t worry BigG. We English are getting used to being portrayed by SNP politicians and supporters as saying stuff we just haven’t. LOL
Value Is Everything
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