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alsoran my definition of connections referred to trainers/lads/lasses.I should have made that clearer
Those who buy a horse are in my opinion more likely to punt on it but not to top up incomes but out of blind loyalty.
Those who buy horses know that it is an expensive hobby and should be viewed as an income write off not potential income gain.
CONALL yes I’ll go along with that theory and also speaking from expierence the loyalty factor is the worse scenario one could employ its like granny or mum who regardless chooses twice a week to put the birthday numbers on the lotto !!!! you become so addictive/repetitive you will not leave them out under any circumstances, so like your own animal you must bet it at all times in varying figures/plunges out of loyalty.<br>REGARDS MERLIN
Been there a few times this year with the latest when Amelia ran LTO at Newmarket on ground I knew would be too sharp for her after a baking afternoon but I still backed her – extremely angry afterwards but then i remembered Leicester and decided she owes me nothing! You just can’t help yourself although you know it’s wrong (well I can’t anyway!).
Hi Alsorun
There is no cover all answer for your question on who selects the races to enter.  A lot of owners leave everything to the trainer and hope for the best.  Personally, I take the exact opposite view and do the placing myself and rely on the trainer to do his primary job and prepare the horse physically.
Its very time consuming business to prepare a campaign for a horse, especially when you are still finding out what the horse requires by way of trip, ground, racing style etc.  In this electronic age, we have to thumb through the pages of the Program Book looking for races.
I run my horses with the specific objective of each of them (currently 4) winning one race per year, when the money is down big time.  Within the last year this has worked out well with one horse winning at 12/1, which has more than covered the losses on another two big losing bets when the horses finished second.
As soon as I think the horse is fully exposed and cannot be setup for a punt I sell them on even though they may still be quite well handicapped.  Holding on to horses long term is not for me.  The longer you have them the more they cost and the increased chance of a serious injury is always present.
W.
(Edited by Wallace at 12:21 pm on Oct. 17, 2002)
yes it is bent no horse always runs on its merits the trainer the owner etc have to make money for lesser horses this means bringing down its rating increasing its starting price and paying for the horses oats and also that backhander:o i forgot to mention schooling getting the horse a run or a few runs to acclimatise whether for gates ,track ,hurdles etc etc many many factors we all know about but simply where theres a financial gain theres always going to be cheating im not saying everyones bent but i know of a few who are ive received info just like many others sometimes its good and sometimes its bad but we all know the story;)
(Edited by spideymansbluff at 9:25 am on Oct. 18, 2002)
Alsoran & JW
The first horse I landed a gamble with won on his first race for us. I knew it was fit and ready to win and was also well handicapped. It fell in its last race for the previous owner when well bet and I stepped in to claim it. All I had to do with this one was move it to a unfashionable trainer and enter it in a very weak handicap hurdle.
The younger and less exposed a horse is the more time it usually takes to work out what is required. I have been involved with 2 & 3 y-o’s with generally with dissapointing outcomes. My preference is definately to stick to handicap hurdles. The opposition can usually be assessed accurately and I find in longer races genuine form has a much better chance of working out providing, you know for certain your horse stays the trip.
Looking for the right race is everything. As someone once said "keep you money in the best company and your horses in the worst" Low grade handicap hurdles are the best races for me. I want to feel confident my horse has at least a stone in hand when aiming for a bet.
I try and avoid making a last minute change of plan. In jump racing the only factor than can change things is lots of overnight rain and if you have a decent ground horse its OK to pull it out. I also do not believe in letting the jockey the money is down until he is in the saddle. They all have their friends putting money on.
I must stress, I never ask a jockey or trainer to break the rules. All my horses run within the rules.
W.
Of course it’s bent. Otherwise all handicaps would have multiple dead heats. Bookies would not attend and all punters would back the same horse; trainers would keep most of their horses at home and Dermot Weld’s second string would not always finish last first time out and win next time while the Jockey Club stewards turned their heads the other way..
alsoran can you tell me if you think racing is totally straight slightly bent/crooked/etc or entirely bent i hear what you are saying in your post but i know first hand it aint straight i know you do as does everyone else its plain to see if a horse ran to its merits all the time it would end up in the handicappers grip and the rating would make that particular horse unraceable going on about boreas race not every race is fixed bent crooked etc etc what we are saying some are ,horses in some races arent running on their merits until the time is right thats a fact despite the rule all horses must run to their merits .
where theres money theres cheating
spideymansbluff & Benmore
Your premise that racing should be straighter than every other sport is unrealistic and taints your argument. Are you seriously suggesting that for example every athlete who competes in every single sport competes 100% fit – that is completely impossible.
I am not stupid enough to suggest that everything is rosy in the sport, however I am also conscious of th fact that horses arent machines and humans are falliable… how can you possible expect therefore for every horse to line up ready to run for their lives.
maybe its simply me, but I dont expect every horse to be 100% all of the time. and I act accordingly. more importantly I am very keen for horses to be given the best introduction to racing, frankly the vast majority of them will never see the winners enclosure and therefore if they are going to enetertain me for the next 2-12 years, I am quite happy to see them have th best possible introduction
Thats what bugs me about this thread and the other one started by JTS… I can’t help but think that the single biggest mistake racing has made is forgetting it is totally reliant on the horse for its survival … not the punter. <br> <br>I am not demigrating those solely interested in punting, far from it, they are an integral part of the sport, I do though believe that the biggest critic of the sport are in this faction of followers.
<br>Personally, I do belive that some of these people do have legitimate concerns about the sport that should be aired… I do however believe that some of them should make themselves more aware of the risks there are taking in backing a horse… They aren’t playing Portman Park … they are putting money on an animal which has a mind of its own and is as independant as you or me .. and in every race run in this country will show it.
mr rook im well aware that horses arent machines ive never suggested that did you read somewhere and horses also shouldnt be punished on their introductions or first few races just to get the dollars rolling in im simply stating that there is a seedier side to racing that wont disappear thats all there are valid points from several people on this thread<br>a horse can have an off day it can also be in its prime just like atheletes but the seedier side to the game is rather annoying when its blatent to see and the jockey club do nothing to intervene i love the racing game from a punters point of view i would love to be an owner,the animals themselves are beautiful intelligent creatures my daughter is involved with the everyday side i enjoy watching and being that close to these animals but i will always maintain and no one will remove this from me
where theres money theres crooks making a buck or two:o
it is accepted that the animal is the innocent in this argument,its when greedy humans get involved the problem starts.what use is there in printing and broadcasting massive amounts of information if it cannot proved to be correct.there is nothing wrong with legitimately placing a beast to give its best chance but when its deblibretly run under the wrong circumstances it makes the whole thing a sham.in any case weve seen evidence on this site to give us the answer from owners and punters alike.what ive leant from it is stay near the money your chance of picking an outsider thro the form book is well LUCK, no one can be trusted and the science of the form book can not be perfected until everything is pucker and that will never be.so overall do we amateurs no as much Jim Mcgrath,Francome,etc etc
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