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Just my opinion but I feel racing should take a leaf out of Australia’s book on this one (And I wouldnt often say that) but in Melbourne they have scrapped their version of the race because three horses died in the race (I think last year)
I certainly wouldn’t be giving Australian racing the moral high ground, being that they still get a thrill from forcing standardbreds to pace around Harold Park with some fat guy in silks in tow.
Nothing wrong with that, horses can pull much, much more than they can carry on their backs.
I appreciate the risks that we ask the horses to take on our behalf for our pleasure. However, I consider the pleasure that horse racing brings to millions, day in, day out to outweigh the cost of that pleasure (the loss of horses in action and the injuries they inevitably sustain).
That is a moral judgement on my part. I have total respect of the views of those who do not think the cost is outweighed by the pleasure and I respect their right to say so. I was/am anti-foxhunting and respect both my right to say so and the right of those to argue against my view.
I support all that is done to make racing safer and fairer for horses but here is a limit to how safe it can be made and there will always be risks. You either accept the cost is worth it or you don’t. I do.
Agreed, and well said
It is indeed a personal moral judgement which doesn’t translate as a dogmatic NH racing is ‘right’ ‘good’ or ‘okay’ but only that it is a sport that you as an individual deem to be ‘okay’ because for selfish reasons you enjoy it, and for more altruistic reasons believe the high standard of living NH horses have when alive is sufficient to outweigh the inevitable deaths in action doing something they themselves enjoy
A flawed rationalisation and a weak justification perhaps: NH racing will always be something of a pact with the devil and – for me – an uneasy fearful joy, but a great joy nevertheless
Prufrock admits to "feeling more and more uneasy as time has gone by"
Same here really, which given that it would be logical to expect that one would become increasingly inured to horse deaths the more one is exposed to them, is surprising, though probably as it should be
It’s a great but difficult game that tugs at both the heartstrings and moral fibres
Going off at a slight tangent I do believe that in an increasingly sanitized world being subjected to the death-throes of a horse up close and personal is actually good for the soul and character: an unpleasant though worthwhile experience
Hence I don’t want the deaths of racehorses ‘swept under the carpet’, mentioned in passing, hushed up or generally made as little of as is politely possible
Show us all, remind us constantly
the Hennessey compared to the Becher Chase is longer,
Give or take a few yards, they’re both 3m2f, the last I checked. Were you thinking of the Topham (2m6f)?
HTH,
gc
Thanks, Jeremy. Yes, I was crossing my wires. Still, I think the other points I have made are valid!
The water jump I noticed this year seems to have changed much since my day!
Craig
Just my opinion but I feel racing should take a leaf out of Australia’s book on this one (And I wouldnt often say that) but in Melbourne they have scrapped their version of the race because three horses died in the race (I think last year)
Barely warrants comparison, to be honest – the race you’re referring to is / was frequently contested by Flat-breds racing over trips they can’t cope with, on lightning fast ground, and with the "fences" being little more than yellow dandy brushes on metals stands.
Rather than address any of the issues that made such contests unedifying and occasionally dangerous individually (i.e. by insisting on ground no worse than good, or by devising better fences), the Victoria state just opted for the cheap and mindless alternative of banning the discipline of jumping outright.
gc
It would be unfair to dump the blame at the feet of the state of Victoria.
The racing authorities in that state have had about a decade to implement the recommendations of a report into the safety aspects of jump racing, but have failed to do very much at all, and only have themselves to blame.
Just my opinion but I feel racing should take a leaf out of Australia’s book on this one (And I wouldnt often say that) but in Melbourne they have scrapped their version of the race because three horses died in the race (I think last year)
I certainly wouldn’t be giving Australian racing the moral high ground, being that they still get a thrill from forcing standardbreds to pace around Harold Park with some fat guy in silks in tow.
A few words of advice: if you’re totally ignorant about a subject, best not to post too trenchant a viewpoint.
Leaving aside the fact that trotting/pacing has a vastly better safety record than flat racing (never mind the jumps) – even in Australia where their flat racing is significantly safer than the UK’s, perhaps you could answer the following questions:
1. If horses are being "forced" to pace, then how come double-gaiters
always
pace, say a typical distance of around 2000m, in two or three seconds less than they can trot it?
2. Why do pacing horses stand so much more racing than thoroughbreds?
There is a guy who trains his trotters around the roads of South Manchester. On some Sundays he flies down our road at the same speed as a galloping horse. When he had stopped at traffic lights I took a look at the horse & noticed that it was entire & had remarkably unblemished legs with tendons like iron. They are obviously very tough horses a thoroughbred would break down if asked to do the same work. I don’t know anything about the breeding of these horses, are they as inbred as TB’s?
I personally think the inbreeding to Northern Dancer & his sons is excessive, but this is probably not affecting NH breeding yet.I obviously don’t know whether this horse is a European trotter or a standardbred, but with both breeds, and especially the standardbred, there is generally more inbreeding practised than with thoroughbreds. However sound they are though, I don’t think training them on tarmac roads is a very sensible idea, to put it mildly.
In Europe, trotters often run unshod, either front or back or both (has to be declared), so we can assume the feet of European trotters are generally pretty soundly constructed, a lot more so than those of thoroughbreds, not that that’s saying much. I may be wrong on this, but I have a feeling that all the runners in this year’s Prix D’Amerique ran unshod and that this was the first time this had happened.
There is a guy who trains his trotters around the roads of South Manchester. On some Sundays he flies down our road at the same speed as a galloping horse. When he had stopped at traffic lights I took a look at the horse & noticed that it was entire & had remarkably unblemished legs with tendons like iron. They are obviously very tough horses a thoroughbred would break down if asked to do the same work. I don’t know anything about the breeding of these horses, are they as inbred as TB’s?
I personally think the inbreeding to Northern Dancer & his sons is excessive, but this is probably not affecting NH breeding yet.There is actually more inbreeding in Standardbreds than in TBs, but the inbreeding is to horses with iron legs-Speedy Crown, Bret Hanover, Super Bowl, Niatross, etc. It’s not uncommon to see a Standardbred with 300+ lifetime starts. Many race every week during the season, but get a few months off in the winter. Harness racing was more popular than Thoroughbred racing in America from the 1870s-1930s, and still gets bigger crowds in some parts of the country.
My opinion may be ignorant to you Venetian, but it is my opinion and I am entitled to have that opinion. It’s no different to any opinion, if it differs radically from another, it certainly is not ‘ignorant’.
I find nothing pleasant in seeing a horse being forced to use an unnatural gait over an extended, some may say gruelling, trip. I see it as no different to a circus pony being trained to jump through hoops of fire. The pony will take no pleasure from it, but it does it because it knows it will get a whoopin’ if it doesn’t.
Ever tried walking much faster than you normally would, it makes the calfs ache like crazy. Now imagine some overweight antipodean armchair jockey forcing you to up the pace.My opinion may be ignorant to you Venetian, but it is my opinion and I am entitled to have that opinion. It’s no different to any opinion, if it differs radically from another, it certainly is not ‘ignorant’.
I find nothing pleasant in seeing a horse being forced to use an unnatural gait over an extended, some may say gruelling, trip. I see it as no different to a circus pony being trained to jump through hoops of fire. The pony will take no pleasure from it, but it does it because it knows it will get a whoopin’ if it doesn’t.
Ever tried walking much faster than you normally would, it makes the calfs ache like crazy. Now imagine some overweight antipodean armchair jockey forcing you to up the pace.Unnatural gate? Many pacers will gait in the pasture, and even those that don’t come to prefer the pace once they are accustomed to it. It’s tough to get a retired Standardbred into a canter or gallop, they just trot/pace faster and faster. Pacers come from a long line of horses that pace well, while trotters come from horses that trot well. There are subtle differences in the conformation of each type that make them most efficient at their respective gait.
My opinion may be ignorant to you Venetian, but it is my opinion and I am entitled to have that opinion. It’s no different to any opinion, if it differs radically from another, it certainly is not ‘ignorant’.
I find nothing pleasant in seeing a horse being forced to use an unnatural gait over an extended, some may say gruelling, trip. I see it as no different to a circus pony being trained to jump through hoops of fire. The pony will take no pleasure from it, but it does it because it knows it will get a whoopin’ if it doesn’t.
Ever tried walking much faster than you normally would, it makes the calfs ache like crazy. Now imagine some overweight antipodean armchair jockey forcing you to up the pace.You really are clueless aren’t you, can’t answer my simple questions so resort to spewing out more ludicrous bigotry.
It’s no wonder that opponents of racing, like Animalaid, so often get given such an easy ride by the media, when racing’s supporters are frequently maddeningly ignorant about their own sport.
If jump or any other form of racing ever gets banned in this country, the fault will lie as much with its friends as with its enemies.
I agree that the owner shouldn’t have been training his horse on the roads; haven’t seen him for a while, but my friend saw him on some playing field complex when she was walking her dog.
As regards pacers, I used to ride one as a teenager & it was near impossible to get him to canter, he just paced faster & faster, a most uncomfortable ride. I would think it is bred into them, don’t the foals copy their mothers?If jump or any other form of racing ever gets banned in this country, the fault will lie as much with its friends as with its enemies.
You’d have to search a long time on this forum to find a more significant statement….only in imv of course.
Craig, I hate to see change just for the sake of it, and as far as I’m concerned, the Grand National has been tinkered with enough. I agree with you on the whole watering thing, certainly would make things safer, but I think there would be an unproar, probably quite rightly from trainers and supporters from good ground horses. Your point above though is very interesting. I never thought I’d see the day when I said this, as I just love seeing horses tackling the Aintree fences, but I think you might be on to something. I get more nervous for the horses watching the Topham & FH, than I do in the National, and looking back over the years, they’ve had their fare share of fatalities. I’m well aware that this happens on the flat, gallops, and hurdles, as well, but I think after this year, the additional negative publicity it brings on the eve of the GN, is something Aintree could do without.
Obviously, a lot of people will disagree with this (still can’t believe I’m saying it myself), and I think we would be in the minority with this view anyway. However, I think you made a very good point, and I, for one, (reluctantly) agree!
My opinion may be ignorant to you Venetian, but it is my opinion and I am entitled to have that opinion. It’s no different to any opinion, if it differs radically from another, it certainly is not ‘ignorant’.
I find nothing pleasant in seeing a horse being forced to use an unnatural gait over an extended, some may say gruelling, trip. I see it as no different to a circus pony being trained to jump through hoops of fire. The pony will take no pleasure from it, but it does it because it knows it will get a whoopin’ if it doesn’t.
Ever tried walking much faster than you normally would, it makes the calfs ache like crazy. Now imagine some overweight antipodean armchair jockey forcing you to up the pace.You really are clueless aren’t you, can’t answer my simple questions so resort to spewing out more ludicrous bigotry.
It’s no wonder that opponents of racing, like Animalaid, so often get given such an easy ride by the media, when racing’s supporters are frequently maddeningly ignorant about their own sport.
If jump or any other form of racing ever gets banned in this country, the fault will lie as much with its friends as with its enemies.
Yet again you resort to slurs and misrepresentation. I am not against racing, and organisations like Animalaid and PETA are part of the problem rather than the solution.
Racing has never been so welfare driven in the UK, and there is no relation between my view of trotting and pacing versus racing a horse in a manner that replicates it’s native behaviour.Although it did not claim any fatalities this year, I have never been a fan of the Mildmay course. Maybe this is a personal prejudice as I do not have stats to back it up, but it always seemed way too tight and the fences awkwardly positioned.
So, here is a radical suggestion:
Stop regular steeplechases at Aintree…
Rebuild the Mildmay Track so it extends so they run on the national track down to where the first fence is, turn left and then rejoin the national track in front of the 28th, before swinging wide of the national track for the home turn.
Put in 4 foot style aintree fences. Run your steeplechases on that (would be a nice change) and the Foxhunters and Topham on that!
Craig
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