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Well I can understand if they’re running in the wrong races but why are they running in the wrong races? To get their h’cap marks down? Or just poor race placement? If it’s the former then it’s just more ‘defrauding’ of the backers.
- Total Posts 17716
Then there’s another problem with tote monopolies …… they incentivate illegal, unlicensed, unregulated and untaxed bookmaking activity.
Corm’s exchange idea is not without merit. All layers licensed fee payers. I agree that has a good ring to it.
Perhaps a model closer to the Australian plan would be easier to instigate here? Bookmakers are licensed on course and online only. No High St presence. The Tote has a major High St presence through shops and terminals in Pubs and Clubs. Betfair also operates online only but nowhere near the volumes it does here.
Does that seem feasible?
What worries me is that this forum is supposedly full of people that love the game, and yet hardly anyone seems to have a good thing to say about it.
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Couldn’t agree more with much of your post sir. There certainly seems to be a black eye mentality from within certain areas of the racing community at the moment. Publications like the Times are just feeding off our own misery. Like you I don’t see the non trier issue as abundantly as some. I have no problem with backing certain exchange drifters either. I lay a lot of horses at very short prices I don’t believe are in the right races due to class, distance and going . I do not operate on an "inside information" basis other than some general info from the gallops.
I know life is certainly a lot easier for me than a bookmaker. I can pick and choose where and when I want to operate on a race by race basis. I see no problem with an exchange licensing process if it helps the integrity of the sport. I do have problems with what I see as ineffective enforcement.
I don’t think the licensed layer idea works. If you are not allowed to lay you can still back the other horses in a race to get the same result.
Zarkava
I’m not saying you or anyone else is wrong when you think that a horse running deliberately under it’s wrong conditions is the equivalent of defrauding punters, but I do see it differently. All the information is there for all to see, Spanish Bounty was a prime example at Windsor on Monday night. Just four starts ago he had been very competitive off a mark of 87, three sub standard efforts on ground softer than ideal (one was too bad to be true) resulted in him dropping fully 12lb. Quite how he was ever available at 28/1 I don’t know, but is that really cheating when a horse is trying his hardest in a race, but conditions aren’t in his favour? I don’t think it is, I’m quite happy when I know that i’ve watched a race and I feel as confident as I can be that they were all trying. Sussing out which horses are very unlikely to win because conditions aren’t in their favour, is the reward for putting in the hours.
Having said all of that half the time it really is just bad placing by a lot of trainers that produces odd results. Someone said to me the other day after Shouldavenownbettr won at Hereford that he knew someone from the stable, and they had zero confidence in his chance (33/1) and that Mr Sheppard didn’t have a clue what trip/ground to run him on and was just experimenting!4 meetings 2moro
4 meetings Sunday
At least 6 on Monday.Does anyone think that is anyway remotely interesting or good for British Racing. The standards of British Jumping in the Summer is a disgrace because they have so many races catering for so many terrible horses that can run straight. We saw this year at the Festival that British Racing is becoming less and less competitive, even Gordon Elliott has basically moved half his string to England to race, he has said before that the British Poor horses are getting worse and worse allowing Irish Horses to come over and win.
The whole product is my concern…..They even increased the meeting this year again.
Are the Bookmakers running British Racing and ultimetly destroying it
- Total Posts 17716
I don’t think the licensed layer idea works. If you are not allowed to lay you can still back the other horses in a race to get the same result.
And that’s exactly what some folks did in the bad old days prior to exchanges. Have we gone full circle? Are we back to Tote only as a solution?
Then again backing them all is never as easy as simply laying one horse though is it? Hmmmm. We can circumnavigate this island all day and keep ending up in the same place. So what do you think about removing bookmakers from the High St?
Robert , here is an idea , make sure you save your posts on this thread , then go away and concentrate on in running betting /laying for 12 months
Then revisit and watch your self look at these posts with dismay
until then dear boy I disagree entirely , as it stands most of the races run are low-minimum tariff value , be prepared for some antics and skullduggery ….by the truck load
In other words Racing is mostly bent , IMO of course
Ricky
Robert , here is an idea , make sure you save your posts on this thread , then go away and concentrate on in running betting /laying for 12 months
Then revisit and watch your self look at these posts with dismay
until then dear boy I disagree entirely , as it stands most of the races run are low-minimum tariff value , be prepared for some antics and skullduggery ….by the truck load
In other words Racing is mostly bent , IMO of course
Ricky
Um, have you read Robert’s thread in the Daily Lays and Plays section?
Yes Tuffers , his form study is a legend , but that all goes out the window when the race has started
My comments stand
Ricky
Trying to work out why, if someone genuinely believes the large majority of racing to be bent, they remain interested in the sport.
Bewildered of England
Why me and Zarkava stay in Racing is to see the big festivals…the big races and the best horses and jockeys and get a opinion right from a long way out on these races.
Horses like Sea The Stars and Zarkava are what Racing is about….not donkey running at Southwell thats a business not much of a sport.
Why me and Zarkava stay in Racing is to see the big festivals…the big races and the best horses and jockeys and get a opinion right from a long way out on these races.
Horses like Sea The Stars and Zarkava are what Racing is about….
Can’t argue with that.
4 meetings 2moro
4 meetings Sunday
At least 6 on Monday.Does anyone think that is anyway remotely interesting or good for British Racing.
Are the Bookmakers running British Racing and ultimetly destroying it
Are for real?
It’s EASTER. Most people are off work, it’s a long weekend.
There are 16 meetings in three days because they’ll pack people in through the gates.
Do you only want racing to take place on rainy midweek Wednesdays when no-one can watch it?
And ATR are showing the South African racing because there is no UK racing. Likewise, they show US meetings because that’s what’s there. There are no UK races taking place at night.
Well how can you confidently + accurately lay horses on a PMU? It operates to a 100% book (punter therefore getting same value as Betfair) + the odds can fluctuate at any point. Unless you’re placing all your win bets at the very last second, surely your win bets, and therefore your lay, is under threat from something coming in between the time you bet + the start of the race. Not a system I would want to rely on by laying.
Well how can you confidently + accurately lay horses on a PMU? It operates to a 100% book (punter therefore getting same value as Betfair) + the odds can fluctuate at any point. Unless you’re placing all your win bets at the very last second, surely your win bets, and therefore your lay, is under threat from something coming in between the time you bet + the start of the race. Not a system I would want to rely on by laying.
It’s my biggest issue with a Tote monopoly or PMU or anything like that.
I want to take a price, I don’t want to be subject to the fluctuations of a gamble. Some puts a few quid on, then someone else, momentum builds & the price shortens. Under PMU, what would be the point of studying & research if the end result is some JCLs latch on & you end up with a return of 36p?
Yes but Newton Abbott has half fields with terrible horses. Racecourses are just trying to get money for themselves on a busy weekend which is fair enough but the premise is that if every race course purely thinks about getting as many people through the gate putting a bad product on show with poor money etc.
Is that good for Racing in the big picture
Yes but Newton Abbott has half fields with terrible horses. Racecourses are just trying to get money for themselves on a busy weekend which is fair enough but the premise is that if every race course purely thinks about getting as many people through the gate putting a bad product on show with poor money etc.
Is that good for Racing in the big picture
Yes it is. At bank holiday meetings (or at least the very few I have been to) many people go to the races ‘for something to do’ (Cartmel being the spiritual home of such people), take the kids while they’re off school & the parents are off work etc etc.
Some of those people ‘going for something to do’ will come away as supporters. I strongly believe (and not just for racing but other sports too) that grass roots level is what brings in new long term supporters.
We look at the racing press & see there are lots of meetings. But if you’re going to Newton Abbot, chances are you won’t know or care that there’s racing at Redcar.
Maybe not all meetings should exist for betting purposes.
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