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<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Jonibake wrote:</div>
Of course he’s had to improve because his stablemate has improved. Look at the gaps back to the rest. The Dante was a very good race Zark and these are two very good horses who will both be rated well into the 120’s after this. As for your opinion on GH – yours would be a one man jury I reckon!!!The Dante 1-2-3 were 1-2-3 in the Derby betting before the gamble on Giovanni C. That suggests it was the only worthwhile trial.
Halling (Jack Hobbs’ sire) wasn’t good til he was a 4 year old. His dam was unraced but her dam only achieved blacktype at the end of her 3yo career, on her 17th start. Damsire, Swain, also took time getting up to Group 1 standard. Everything about Jack Hobbs, including the way his trainer trains his horses, suggests he’ll get better with age. The fact that he’s finished 2nd in a Derby suggests to me that he’s either a freak, or, more likely IMO, he’s run a solid race and the standard he’s currently at (a shadow of what he’s really capable of) was good enough to finish 2nd in a bad Derby.
For the time being I’m still erring on the skeptical side of things re. Golden Horn. Wouldn’t be the first time a super impressive Derby winner didn’t end up being all that.
I agree he’ll get better with age and I agree it was the best trial and said so all along. If you want to be skeptical that’s up to you but Zark you said many things on this thread that have proved to be way, way wide of the mark. You mocked those that backed Jack Hobbs after his wide margin win in a handicap simply because it WAS a handicap. You couldn’t see the horses potential. You stated that the Dante was not a good race and that GH beat trees. You were adamant that this was a terrible Derby (the worse you have seen in 13 years) and that GC would improve a stone past everything. That’s fine of course, we all get things wrong as you would see from my own thread on DLAP’s. The key is always to LEARN from your mistakes. But, rather than come on here and say “well done” to those like Steve that got it right, you push on with your theory that they are no good. I remember you doing exactly the same in Frankel’s year and falling flat on your face as Dream Ahead, Nathaniel, Excelebration and Frankel of course kept on winning. You provide some very well researched and interesting debate on here and I am really glad you are back. Just learn from those mistakes my friend – I don’t want you to end up skint!!!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
If your dosage theory held true, Ginger Tipster, then Frankel would have won the Ascot Gold Cup.
Wow what a day.I’ve never been to Derby day in all my 30 odd years of watching it but thanks to Gary GDC I had one of the most memorable days ever.Derby day is like no other,its not just a race meeting its a culture the Epsom Downs are vast and its all Razzamatazz,Helicopters galore,funfairs and partying.A totally unique atmosphere to anything I’ve experienced on a Racecourse.Gary and his military pals were the perfect hosts although I was reminded a dozen times to do my top button up entering the Queens Guards enclosure.TAPK had primed his troops well in advance that both ‘Golden Horn’ and ‘Storm the Stars’ were proper Derby horses having watched a magical race at Nottingham as 2yo’s where a Photo finish decided the outcome……Oh no thats the Drink talkin! In reality Giovanni Canaletto ran a race that told us he’s still very immature but his day will come.Still a magical day and whilst I managed a whole 5 pints of Beer,Gary was on his 25th..These Guys know how to live life.If only I knew how to post Pics on here!!
Sounds like you had an amazing time Gord!I read that the attendance was 125,000!!! Not bad for a dying sport!!! It truly is a day like no other.
Fwiw I thought GC ran well and it was interesting to hear Frankie say that he was keen to follow JH and GC as he were the two he most feared. Shows your judgement wasn’t so far off. His day will come.
As for the piccies – why don’t you do what I do when I need to work out something technical on the computer. Ask your 6 year old daughter………
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
On this thread, both before and after the Derby, comments have been made that Golden Horn’s pedigree, in relation to an indication of his stamina, have implied that he had a low probability of staying the Derby distance. One post said “… a complete freak to win at that distance with his pedigree …”. I think we all know that numbers do not tell the whole story about anything to do with racing, but there is a numerical system of assessing stamina called the Dosage System, which has been around since the middle of the last century and still going strong. The Dosage Index (DI) of Golden Horn indicates his pedigree has more stamina than six other Derby winners in the last twenty-five years, and sixteen other Derby winners in the last fifty years. His pedigree indicates his stamina is well within the normal range for Derby winners, and certainly not in the range of “freak”.
You can check the Dosage Index of most thoroughbreds at http://www.pedigreequery.com. The lower the DI, the more stamina a horse is likely to possess.
Steve Miller, for my money the UK’s foremost authority on the dosage system, disagrees with you although it is clearly also incorrect to label his getting the trip in realms of ‘freak’.
To Gt and Jonib, re Dettori.
I do see where you’re coming from. As I said, I’m a Frankie fan. I like his effervescence. It’s good for the sport.
I just found yesterday OTT. Nothing wrong with it normally but if that’s how he’s reacting to the situation he maybe needs to consult a psychiatrist.
Haggas did call his horse ‘See The Stars’. I noticed that – that’s his emotions getting the better of him!
Glad I didn’t imagine that, Maurice! What annoys me about Frankie is the way that, whenever another jockey wins a big race he still has to be seen hugging and kissing them [not in a laid back congratulatory way but in a ‘the camera loves me more than you’ way]. Having said that, there was no mention of the Derby on my ‘laidee’s’ forum other than one remarking on Frankies flying dismounts, so he is good for racing unlike that miserable, surly, Ryan Moore.
I, too was wondering about the concerns over GH’s pedigree, given that Cape Cross was in so many recent Derby/Oaks winning pedigrees. I should have learned my lesson after spending a day in Whitby [which is why it stuck in my mind] and saying at the time ‘that horse Ouija Board can’t win the big race because she won’t stay’. She went on to become one of my favourite horses of all time.
Great pics Gord. I thought you said GDC used to be in the army….. was it the Salvation?
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I finished on a high, first second and third tipped for the tricast.
Big mouths flapped and were proved hollow.
Pedigrees were proved wrong.
That’s it from me readers, I promised my wife I was retiring after this race.
Be lucky guys and gals.
You cant shoot off yet Steve.
you still in the daylight cup. I’ve backed you to win it. Better to retire with the trophy and signed cheque from bob rolf then go now.
best wishes…….
Blackbeard to conquer the World
Frankie and Golden Horn going to post.
Cracking photo that Gord.
Anyone would think you were stood on the course.Blackbeard to conquer the World
My sectional friend has emailed me apologising profusely for a mistake he made with Giovanni Canaletto’s last run. It turns out GC didn’t have the big figure he’d thought.
It made no material difference to me. I was always looking for something with which to oppose Golden Horn since I didn’t think it would stay. I’d backed GC on the morning of his race so was already on. That was on the assumption it would more than halve in price if it did win, just to give me a position on the race. The alternative would have been Jack Hobbs but it would have been a win bet.
On top of that, my brother was on Golden Horn ante-post long before the Dante – at 33/1. I had to suffer him on the phone last night…
Got that one wrong. As Hughsie said before the race , this year’s Dante is just the mini-Derby ! How right Richard Hughes was . Golden Horn definitely stayed and flew past poor old Jack Hobbs ( badly named horses don’t win Derbys ,as Sangster said ) and looked every inch a top class horse
even though it was a poor Derby.It was good to watch The Morning Line looking back at previous years’ Derbys .
The colour footage of Sea Bird toying with the ’65 field was worth the early wake .
No wonder ( as Jim McGrath told viewers ) Lester Piggott rates Sea Bird as the
greatest of all Derby winners.Where next for Golden Horn : Eclipse , Irish Derby (oops , not entered) or straight to King George ?
Eclipse it is then .
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If your dosage theory held true, Ginger Tipster, then Frankel would have won the Ascot Gold Cup.
Frankel had a far from perfect temperament Crepello. Too enthusiastic – particularly at three – which is why he did not go for the Derby.
Value Is Everything
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