- This topic has 650 replies, 50 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 4 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Saw the Elm Park gallop today and he looked like he was skipping rather than galloping. He won’t get away with so many leg changes in the Derby. On build, stride length and experience, Jack Hobbs also looks like he’ll struggle with the track. First time seeing H Holbein today and quite liked him, but am hoping Golden Horn shows them all a glistening pair of heels.
Talking of a horse’s action, I thought Peacock’s today one of the oddest I’ve seen, with all 4 legs going different ways. He must have a fair engine to overcome such an ungainly action. With proper give underfoot, he could prove a serious horse.
Talking of a horse’s action, I thought Peacock’s today one of the oddest I’ve seen, with all 4 legs going different ways. He must have a fair engine to overcome such an ungainly action. With proper give underfoot, he could prove a serious horse.
Your a good judge Joe.
Peacock the machine……!!
Blackbeard to conquer the World
Hannon & Hughsie both expressed before peacock’s victory that the only concern they had was handling the undulations of Newmarket as he also did the same thing when running behind Golden Horn.
So I would say he looks potentially brilliant on a course like Ascot or even Sandown for future big races.Well Jack Hobbs might not look like the right type for Epsom, but he’s impressive here: https://youtu.be/JZTM_2o3-Ms
Well, well, well. After not knowing about Zawraq’s stamina, connections are now confident that he will stay the trip.
The reason they now know?
Well, despite having said that you don’t work horses at home to see whether or not they will stay, there was a u-turn and they worked Zawraq over a mile and a quarter to see whether he was likely to stay or not. Amazing stuff.
Apparently the horse was doing all his best work in the closing stages so they are now confident he will get the trip.
The question has to be how fast they went to make it a worthwhile indicator of stamina and whether the extra energy spent finding that out might have been better deployed in the actual Derby.
I can’t remember a Derby with so much fall out and so many trainers going back on their word so shortly after having seemingly asserted an opinion that was 100% definite. O’Brien and Weld are titting around like newcomers without a clue about what they are saying and doing, rather than masters of their trade.
I think someone needs to send both of them a copy of the poster of a US soldier sporting a tin coffee cup and uttering the legend:-
“How about a nice big cup of shut the ***k up, Think, before you say something stupid”
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Lol Steve, that reminded me of Happy Gilmore, with his nan in the old folks home.
I see Hannon is going to run Moheet now the race is looking shady. Jeez Hannon grow some balls and run the horse whatever the competition if you think he’s a derby horse. He’s now saying Peacocks a good horse since Golden Horn beat him and then won the Dante. Peacock was good anyway have some faith in my horse Mr Hannon…….
Blackbeard to conquer the World
Darn, I had a link to the Happy Gilmore clip but it didn’t come up.
I’m off to the lounge to practise.Blackbeard to conquer the World
Jack Hobbs will be my selection. He never looked like he was striding out properly in the Dante but I think he has loads of improvement left and I’m expecting a strong, bold effort from him.
Darn, I had a link to the Happy Gilmore clip but it didn’t come up.
I’m off to the lounge to practise.that was easy enough
Blackbeard to conquer the World
The female line provides the stamina in around 90% of pedigrees. That is why we have seen horses sired by a sprinter or miler winning races like the Derby. Dr Devious (Ahanoora) Hard Ridden (Hard Sauce) and as mentioned in an earlier post North Light (Danehill). Their female lines were all stamina laden ones. There have been very few instances of a horse winning the Derby out of a sprinting mare. Nimbus (Nearco-Kong- Baytown) is the only one I can think of. Kong was a sprinter, her sire Baytown won the Irish Derby though and Nearco Nimbus’s sire won over twelve furlongs, though he wasn’t a huge influence for stamina. Nimbus won the 2000 Guineas and then just scraped home at Epsom, hanging badly, in the first photo finish used for the race.
Golden Horn is by a stallion that will sire a stayer from a staying mare; Golden Horn’s female line consists of mares who work the other way and produce fast horses from staying stallions. What’s remarkable is that he stays ten furlongs, he could be a freak, but he will be the first horse in modern times to win a Derby from that sort of breeding.Interesting… although as you
The female line provides the stamina in around 90% of pedigrees. That is why we have seen horses sired by a sprinter or miler winning races like the Derby. Dr Devious (Ahanoora) Hard Ridden (Hard Sauce) and as mentioned in an earlier post North Light (Danehill). Their female lines were all stamina laden ones. There have been very few instances of a horse winning the Derby out of a sprinting mare. Nimbus (Nearco-Kong- Baytown) is the only one I can think of. Kong was a sprinter, her sire Baytown won the Irish Derby though and Nearco Nimbus’s sire won over twelve furlongs, though he wasn’t a huge influence for stamina. Nimbus won the 2000 Guineas and then just scraped home at Epsom, hanging badly, in the first photo finish used for the race.
Golden Horn is by a stallion that will sire a stayer from a staying mare; Golden Horn’s female line consists of mares who work the other way and produce fast horses from staying stallions. What’s remarkable is that he stays ten furlongs, he could be a freak, but he will be the first horse in modern times to win a Derby from that sort of breeding.Interesting… although as you say he could be a freak.
what’s your take on the likes of Elm Park, Jack Hobbs and the Weld horse staying the trip Crepello?
Hans Holbein if he lines up could be an each-way play. Beautiful breeding for the race being by Montjeu out of a Shirley heights mare
You know he is going to get the trip. It could end up being a brutal race if Obrien wants to test the favourites stamina and Hans Holbein and Storm the stars could be staying on well at the death when the more fancied favourites are crying enough
Montjeu horses have a fantastic record in the derby. He’s already sired four winners although Galileo has started to challenged his preeminence in recent years. I guess with his sad and untimely death this could be his last runner in the race?!
Think the only worry with Hans and Storm the stars, is are they quite up to this level, they might just be group two horses and lack on the class angle.
Of those three horses Jack Hobbs is the one most likely to stay. The mare goes back to Nagaika, but then she got a son Connaught who should have won a St Leger on breeding but ended up a ten furlong specialist, though without Sir Ivor he would have won a Derby.
Elm Park has a worrying duplication of Sharpen Up, Sharpen Up one of those horses who sired sons and daughters who stayed further than him. He isn’t certain to stay but I sense he will. As for Zawraq I think that Sundus may get enough stamia from Sadler’s Wells, but there is certainly a question mark there. If I was a betting woman I would go for Hans Holbein, he won his trial well and his pedigree is suitable, with something each way on Kilimanjiro, who also has a suitable pedigree and can only come on from his last race, where he was green. It’s time we had a grey Derby winner.Just to add this is the most fascinating Derby for those who are interested in breeding, that I can remember.
All we need to complete the muddle is for Gleneagles to be declared for the race now.
From being quoted for the race to being removed, only to be reintroduced and then removed again, the dance that is the Gleneagles Hokey Cokey went into another twist as he was re-reintroduced, only to be removed again. We had the in, the out, the in, the out, in, out and now we are now experiencing the “shaking it all about” phase, where we have crept from three firms quoting him for the race up to seven firms.
Bizarrely, in some sort of ante-post price fixing cartel, every single firm has him listed at 4/1. This Conan Doyle Sign Of Four is a mystery even Sherlock Holmes could not crack. Why for? Why Four?
You would think somebody would have a bit more clue about whether he will run and stick their neck out a bit further than the rest of the pack.
I hope Gleneagles runs, I believe we need class more than we need pedigree lines to mull over, but even the pedigree buffs get the chance to put Gleneagles under the microscope in the search for stamina, so it’s win-win surely?
We will surely find out shortly, after an unreal bout of denial, yet keeping the horse in the race. It seems from the weather forecast that he is likely to get his ground, while the Hans Holbein, Kilimanjaro, Elm Park and Storm The Stars fans may see their horses on livelier ground than where their form has been gathered.
Come on Ballydoyle, you know it makes sense and he’s your only colt with the class.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Q. Why four? why for?
A. They think he’ll come forth and come fourth.
Blackbeard to conquer the World
The female line provides the stamina in around 90% of pedigrees. That is why we have seen horses sired by a sprinter or miler winning races like the Derby. Dr Devious (Ahanoora) Hard Ridden (Hard Sauce) and as mentioned in an earlier post North Light (Danehill). Their female lines were all stamina laden ones. There have been very few instances of a horse winning the Derby out of a sprinting mare. Nimbus (Nearco-Kong- Baytown) is the only one I can think of. Kong was a sprinter, her sire Baytown won the Irish Derby though and Nearco Nimbus’s sire won over twelve furlongs, though he wasn’t a huge influence for stamina. Nimbus won the 2000 Guineas and then just scraped home at Epsom, hanging badly, in the first photo finish used for the race.
Golden Horn is by a stallion that will sire a stayer from a staying mare; Golden Horn’s female line consists of mares who work the other way and produce fast horses from staying stallions. What’s remarkable is that he stays ten furlongs, he could be a freak, but he will be the first horse in modern times to win a Derby from that sort of breeding.Stamina can come from the male or female line. Take a look at many horses sired by Coolmore stallions Galileo and Montjeu. To say “the female line provides the stamina in around 90% of pedigrees”, is simply not true Crepello.
Value Is EverythingI’ve never known much about breeding and it’s decades since I studied Flat racing with any seriousness, but having just watched the Dante again, my old eyes tell me that Golden Horn races very much as though he wants a mile and half.
I hope there’s none of this ride him to get the trip nonsense because I suspect that under a ‘proper’ ride he will win this very comfortably.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.