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Quote: from Aidan on 7:26 pm on Feb. 8, 2007[br]I really think people should look at Michael O’Briens career and personal life before anyone can describe him as "incompetent".
He’s either competent or he’s not. His career and personal life have nothing to do with it. And the fiasco earlier in the season over In Compliance’s participation in the Paddy Power Gold Cup coupled with the present controversy point to him not being all that competent. If a trainer aiming a horse at a hundred and ten grand chase doesn’t know what penalty he’ll get for winning his prep race then it’s a pretty poor show. That’s what happened.
I thought MOB had stated that he couldnt work In compliance over fences and not necessarily an overall fitness workout neither of these would apply to FTP as he had two races recently,jumped hurdles and fences and wouldnt have required much to bring him to near peak,however the trainer is a tough read and I thought it very strange that they were intending running FTP back less than a week after his seasonal reappearance over hurdles(tough one – on heavy ground).Luckily the Thurles meet was postponed a week and FTP gave a good account of himself. In view of the fact that the ground is going to be testing if Leopardstown goes ahead I would say MOB is glad of his decision now. Wouldn’t it be interesting if Leopardstown were postponed a week or two!What then!
He’s either competent or he’s not.
So are you saying Michael O’Brien is an incompetent trainer? Yes or no?
Read my post, Aidan. If you think that the Paddy Power entry was dealt with competently, that’s a matter for you.
Thats not what I asked….is he (or any trainer) above making mistakes??? Absolutely not! I would ask you to point me in the direction of anyone in any job that does not spot something or makes a mistake…does that make them incompetent? Of course not.
Aidan O’Brien missed the entry for Brian Boru in a Derby trial a few years back, Dessie Hughes forgot to enter Schindler Hunt in the Arkle…..by your theory they are both incompetent trainers then?
After a bit of thought I have come to the conclusion that the owner called the shots and O Brien had to churn out some pathetic excuse why the horse wont run. From the owners point of view, why run 2 horses when I have a chance of winning with one, and I could pick up another big chase on the way with In Compliance.
I’ll tell you what, Aidan. Given that Irish trainers are clearly above criticism, I’ll just leave it.
Yes that is an easy one to fall back on isnt it.
He’s either competent or he’s not.
Above are YOUR words not mine…you have failed to answer the question I have asked you. Its completely up to you if you think he is…but it would be nice if you actually answered the question (you yourself posed) rather than hiding behind the usual lines popped out on here now and again…
Well he clearly is competent then…if we have to answer it like that since his record is pretty decent.
This is all turning a bit silly anyway. It might be that they dont fancy this race in this ground for a horse not proven to stay 3 miles yet so close to cheltenham.
Has anyone heard of more other targets….???
SHL
Well the Gold Cup has been bandied about but you couldn’t fancy him for that or even have a speculative punt given that he hasn’t even run over 3m yet.
I think it’s generally accepted that one of the two will run in the Ryanair with the other in the Gold Cup but the way it stands now you would have to wait for NRNB for both of these horses until their targets are confirmed
Well the Gold Cup has been bandied about but you couldn’t fancy him for that or even have a speculative punt given that he hasn’t even run over 3m yet.
Doubts around WOA didnt stop him winning it last year over a trip in excess of anything he raced on and he hadnt even won over 3 miles.
OK, Aidan. I assume we’re talking about his competence as a racehorse trainer.
In Compliance ran at Down Royal on Saturday 4th November. The Post’s headline that morning read: "In Compliance goes on trial for Paddy Power." The trainer was quoted as follows: "…all being well, the plan is to run him in the Paddy Power at Cheltenham." The horse won at Down Royal, in the process picking up a penalty for the Cheltenham race.
The headline in Sunday’s Post said "Compliance books his ticket for Paddy Power" and the assistant trainer stated "…all being well, the plan is to go to Cheltenham next weekend."
By Tuesday, it is clear the weights are going to rise but O’Brien tells the Post: "The plan as things stand is to travel." By that afternoon it’s all changed: "Our lad is not going to run on Saturday. I didn’t think he was going to get a 6lb penalty as I thought it was only 3lbs for winning at Down Royal but they tell me that is not the case under the race conditions."
So the trainer of a horse with a serious chance of winning a race with sixty three thousand first prize money hasn’t troubled himself to read the conditions of said race and satisfy himself what penalty his horse will pick up for winning his prep.
There’s more. The race conditions state that "no penalty [is] to increase a horse’s weight above 11st12lb." With the defection of Fondmort, the original top weight, Therealbandit became the new top weight with In Compliance, before adding his penalty, on 11-10. Because no penalty is to increase a horse’s weight above 11-12 he would only have to carry two of the extra six pounds in the Paddy Power, leaving him running off a mark of 152. If he’d carried the 3lbs which O’Brien originally envisaged and with which he would apparently have been happy, he’d have run off 153.
It may be that In Compliance’s owner is entirely happy with the shambles set out above but if I was the horse’s owner and paying out expensive training fees week in and week out I certainly wouldn’t be. I’d expect my trainer to have familiarised himself with the penalty system of any country in which it is proposed the horse might race, I’d expect him to know the difference between Grades and Classes of races and I’d expect him not to waste my money on abortive entry fees. If my horse was capable of winning a valuable race like the Paddy Power, I’d expect some forward planning to be done to maximise his winning chance. And when those things weren’t done I think I’d be able to distinguish between a mistake – which any of us can make – and incompetence. The above, for the avoidance of doubt, amounts in my book to incompetence.
And if my trainer then aimed my horse at another valuable race later in the season, incurred further expensive entry fees on my behalf and then apparently quite suddenly realised that the horse wasn’t fit despite the fact that another horse from the same yard was, I don’t think I’d be giving him the benefit of the doubt.
All the above assumes that a trainer’s first duty is to his owner and, of course, it is. Many of us would also argue that he also has a (lesser) obligation to the punters who provide much of the money that keeps the whole show on the road. There were ante-post markets on both the above races. Mr O’Brien certainly hasn’t done punters any favours with his antics in either case.
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Ok GUS, then by your reasoning he is incompetent and therefore we can lay all his horses. The Sean Mulhern must be some ****
ing eejit. :angry:SHL
not trying to be a smart alec sir harry but sean mulryan is the owners name, mulhern is a different trainer,i don’t think this stable knows the best targets for either horse,i don’t think that makes them incompetent although running In Compliance a few more times wouldve helped.If FTP wins or runs adecent second tomorrow he almost has to go to GC,other than that he goes to RYANAIR,I wouldnt rule out IC for QM.If the Game Spirit throws up more questions than answers tomorrow and leaves the QN MTHR looking fairly open I wouldn’t be surprised that it becomes In compliance target.He would prep over 2m 4f at gowran park and be perfect for a go at stiff 2m at festival rather than taking on the various,experienced contenders that have emerged for the GLD CUP
Quote: from SirHarryLewis on 8:03 pm on Feb. 9, 2007[br]Ok GUS, then by your reasoning he is incompetent and therefore we can lay all his horses.  The Sean Mulhern must be some ****<br>ing eejit. :angry: <br>
Why you have reached the conclusion that all his horses can be layed blind is beyond me. and the ‘****
ing eejit’ you refer to is Sean MULRYANQuote: from davidjohnson on 12:33 am on Feb. 10, 2007[br]
Quote: from SirHarryLewis on 8:03 pm on Feb. 9, 2007[br]Ok GUS, then by your reasoning he is incompetent and therefore we can lay all his horses.  The Sean Mulhern must be some ****<br>ing eejit. :angry: <br>
Why you have reached the conclusion that all his horses can be layed blind is beyond me. and the ‘****<br>ing eejit’ you refer to is Sean MULRYAN
Good chance Mulryan, pulled a fast one got all prices down on FTP, Knowing full well that In Compliance was never ever going to run in the race. "Get rid of Betfair I will live without it".
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