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Following Frankel’s success in the St James Palace Stakes, there is speculation as to whether the winner was idling or geting tired in the last furlong.
My first impression (when I watched the race live) was that Frankel was getting tired late on. Since then, I watched the race many times and now I’m not so sure. Maybe Sir Henry Cecil and Mr Queally could be correct that Frankel was just idling in front and that the horse is learning that it doesn’t need to do more than it ought to? If you look at Frankel straight after the race, he doesn’t appear knackered and strolled back as though he was still in the paddock.
To me, the race (in the closing stages) bore a similarity to Dancing Brave’s King George win … i.e. the horses had accelerated into a couple/few lengths lead, strides shortened (though Frankel’s stride still looked longer than Zoffany’s passing the line LOL) and both held on to a tense three-quarter length success.
I’m a bit on the fence on this one now. What do you think guys, was Frankel just idling or tired?
Absolutely no evidence that F was tiring.
As Cecil said, they are just getting to learn about F and if he had been tapped a furlong later he would have been cruising in the zone at the line. Galloping horses twice a week does not educate them about racing and F has not endured a competitive hard race so far.
My initial thought was that Frankel was idling, but I think it was more what I wanted to believe!
What can’t be denied, is the fact that it’s 100% in trainer and Jockeys interest to say he was idling, rather than knackered.
I suspect they’d rather not have their tactics at Newmarket come into question, and whether the run had left it’s mark on the horse or, indeed, whether they’d scarred him for life.
I really hope he was idling, and wait for his next race with mixed emotions. If he bombs, I’ll be distraught.
Idling implies that a horse would pick up when challenged. Zoffany would have gone straight past Frankel.
I did think Cecil was the only person in the country who thought he was idling. Obviously I got that wrong.
Interestingly, and iirc, Queallys demeanor seemed to change once Henry
confirmed
Frankel was idling…. I may be wrong.
Is there anywhere I can see the post-race chat again?
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Idling ! he was flat!And deserved to be,probably should have got beaten the way he was ridden.In all he was hit with the stick a few times up the straight. A super effort by the horse to win, but you are not idling when you are being hit with the stick or ridden hard.
Look at the sectional times if Frankel wasn’t tired in the final furlong he’s not a horse he’s a man made machine in the guise of a horse.
Eight lengths slower than his fastest furlong Frankel ran the last furlong in, that wasn’t idling.
Sir Henry was simply publically backing his jockey. In private he needs to make certain that the jockey gets it into his head that that sort of right cannot happen again.
Personally I’d replace Queally with Spencer or Dettori both are perfect jockeys for him. Any other horse I’d let Tom keep the ride but this isn’t just a good horse and I wouldn’t be taking the slightest chance with him.
My after race notes say ‘Frankel last furlong, eyes are closing, legs of jelly, Queally jumps off and pushing, plus idling’…..
Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
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Yes that just about sums it up, and love or loathe Aiden O’brien he gets big points for admitting they ballsed it up with the tactics with SYT.Not an easy thing to do when it happens to be a Group 1 at Royal Ascot.
Bearing in mind that (IMHO at least) Queally asked him to make his move at the worst possible time (as it takes much more energy to start accelerating round a bend then in the straight) I think Frankel deserved to be tired but that doesn’t necessarily mean he hadn’t got over his previous race or that he won’t stay further just that he was asked to run in a way that was inefficient. We all know the best way to run a fast time is an even pace and unless Frankel has some Kenyan blood in him I suspect an injection of pace at that point in the race wouldn’t have suited him.
Horses certainly do idle. Going back to my post on the confidence thread, the twin imperatives of a horse are flight and to achieve dominance over the rest of the herd. Once you are in front then both of those reasons to keep running as fast as you can are lost. That incidentally (as I think Mark Johnston pointed out) is why the whip is used because it reactivates the flight response.
For a man of Cecil’s experience to confess he’s still learning about Frankel is both characteristically honest and an admission that he has here an intriguing horse, one not cast in the myriad moulds stored for reference at Warren Place
Frankel fascinates, and I too find it difficult to get a handle on him: his trip, his track, how he should be ridden, his character, his resolve
While still being of the belief that a stiffish mile is an absolute maximum for him, repeated viewings of Tuesday’s race has weakened that conviction a bit
As mentioned on the race thread itself I wasn’t too taken with his head carriage or action once sent to the front, particularly on the Ascot straight which being on a gentle incline horses tend to ‘grab stretch and point’ . However, when Zoffany and the field came within eye-and-ear shot well inside the final furlong Frankel did seem to lengthen and stretch in the shadow of the post
This then gives credence to the belief that it was the idling from being out in front on his own for too long that was the cause a) of the field being able to near-reel him in and b) of the to-my-eyes far from pleasing demeanour and action when on his own, though admittedly the rather ugly and unbalancing ride he was given by a near-panicking Queally would not have helped
On the (perhaps dubious) assumption my thoughts are correct and Frankel does not enjoy being out in front for too long and may be better produced later or late, how then can the then-seemingly-ideal trap-to-line burn in the Guineas be explained?
For a man of Cecil’s experience to confess he’s still learning about Frankel is both characteristically honest and an admission that he has here an intriguing horse, one not cast in the myriad moulds stored for reference at Warren Place
Frankel fascinates, and I too find it difficult to get a handle on him: his trip, his track, how he should be ridden, his character, his resolve
While still being of the belief that a stiffish mile is an absolute maximum for him, repeated viewings of Tuesday’s race has weakened that conviction a bit
As mentioned on the race thread itself I wasn’t too taken with his head carriage or action once sent to the front, particularly on the Ascot straight which being on a gentle incline horses tend to ‘grab stretch and point’ . However, when Zoffany and the field came within eye-and-ear shot well inside the final furlong Frankel did seem to lengthen and stretch in the shadow of the post
This then gives credence to the belief that it was the idling from being out in front on his own for too long that was the cause a) of the field being able to near-reel him in and b) of the to-my-eyes far from pleasing demeanour and action when on his own, though admittedly the rather ugly and unbalancing ride he was given by a near-panicking Queally would not have helped
On the (perhaps dubious) assumption my thoughts are correct and Frankel does not enjoy being out in front for too long and may be better produced later or late, how then can the then-seemingly-ideal trap-to-line burn in the Guineas be explained?
The best way to ride Frankel is the way Queally rode him in the Dewhurst. Things didn’t go right for Frankel in that race in that he was bumped at the start which lit him up a bit, the pace wasn’t particularly strong and the ground was a bit on the soft side for him however he still won easily.
Hold him up off a fast early pace and Frankel will run a huge rating. Off a slower pace you have just just a bit closer to the gallop but given that he can have his own pacemaker there is no reason he should even encounter that situation.
Drone,
Hindsight suggests to me that Frankel got away with the tactics employed at Newmarket because he was meeting just about the worst 2000Gns field ever assembled, a race whose lack of quality was matched only by the subsequent Irish edition.
Three of the Newmarket field turned out in the 10F Group 3 race this week and they filled the last three places behind Pisco Sour. The sixth from the Irish race was beaten at 2/9 in a Tipperary maiden 10 days later.
Now he’s met some better milers, they are getting closer, helped by the bizarre way Frankel is being ridden.
AP
Drone,
Hindsight suggests to me that Frankel got away with the tactics employed at Newmarket because he was meeting just about the worst 2000Gns field ever assembled, a race whose lack of quality was matched only by the subsequent Irish edition.
Three of the Newmarket field turned out in the 10F Group 3 race this week and they filled the last three places behind Pisco Sour. The sixth from the Irish race was beaten at 2/9 in a Tipperary maiden 10 days later.
Now he’s met some better milers, they are getting closer, helped by the bizarre way Frankel is being ridden.
AP
I’d agree it wasn’t a great field in the Guineas I have the runner up and third running to around 117 and 116 respectively. Its a similar level to Sea The Stars Guineas which was also poor.
Frankel is not a horse that runs to the same level every time he races. His last four races I have him running to :
Dewhurst – 123 +
Greenham – 118 +
Guineas – 129 +
S J Pal – 121 +What this shows is that he’s capable of running to a very high mark but also given that in none of his races yet as he finished a race giving the impression that that is as good as he is – he is capable of running to a higher mark yet.
It also shows that if Queally doesn’t learn to ride the horse in a way which gets the best out of him he is beatable.
The horse is versatile in that he can win from anywhere, given any ride and on pretty much any ground / track.
It also shows that if Queally doesn’t learn to ride the horse in a way which gets the best out of him he is beatable.
The horse is versatile in that he can win from anywhere, given any ride and on pretty much any ground / track.
Where have you plucked that theory from? As I said on the other thread the only time he has been held for a late run he destroyed the one-paced Nathanial a half length.
We shall see but I maintain on all known evidence the reason he has kept an unbeaten record is because of Queally rather than despite him. Who is best placed to judge the capabilities of horse? Don’t you think if the jockey thought the horse could cruise along and then produce a telling burst of speed in the final furlong he would have adopted those tactics?
It also shows that if Queally doesn’t learn to ride the horse in a way which gets the best out of him he is beatable.
The horse is versatile in that he can win from anywhere, given any ride and on pretty much any ground / track.
Where have you plucked that theory from? As I said on the other thread the only time he has been held for a late run he destroyed the one-paced Nathanial a half length.
We shall see but I maintain on all known evidence the reason he has kept an unbeaten record is because of Queally rather than despite him. Who is best placed to judge the capabilities of horse? Don’t you think if the jockey thought the horse could cruise along and then produce a telling burst of speed in the final furlong he would have adopted those tactics?
That was his debut run on horrible ground and he was given a "considerate" ride.
He was held up early on in the Dewhurst.
How can you dispute Frankels speed? this is a horse that quickens mid race and no other horse can go with him or do you think they just let him get a five or six length start on them?
If you are right on this one I will publically stand in the paddock at Newmarket and eat a hat.
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