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Whlie steeplechasing is in a golden era at the moment. Hurdling seems to have declined since the retirement of Istabraq. All the winners of the champion hurdle have been nowhere near as good as when Istabraq retired and quality of the champion hurdle races since 2002 have been poor to say the least. Even Hardy Eustace beat poor fields when winning his 2 champion hurdles. Where does anyone think the next Istabraq will spring up from. I can see the next Istabraq coming from a flat-bred son or daugther of either Galileo or Darshaan who will be a modest handicapper from the flat and who will be sold and gelded to a decent jumping stable. Lets hope we see a great 2 miler hurdler coming soon.
We’ve just come out of a golden age for 2m hurdling. IMO racing doesn’t need outstanding champions. The reason the 3m Steeplechasing division is so exciting at the moment is not just because of Kauto Star, but because of the likes of Denman, My Way De Solzen, Star de Mohaison, Exotic Dancer etc and the prospect of great races, not odds-on processions.
I won’t dignify your Hardy Eustace comment with a response!
Maybe we already have one, Sublimity looked pure class in this years Champion, I won’t be opposing him come March.
Maybe we already have one, Sublimity looked pure class in this years Champion, I won’t be opposing him come March.
He’s the first horse I would discard, another Rooster Booster flash in the pan……….got beat more times than my carpet.pre ch………fluke he won.
Katchit got beat once and wasn’t right……..Harchibald has just stormed back to form.
Jolly definately not for me
Maybe we already have one, Sublimity looked pure class in this years Champion, I won’t be opposing him come March.
He’s the first horse I would discard, another Rooster Booster flash in the pan……….got beat more times than my carpet.pre ch………fluke he won.
Katchit got beat once and wasn’t right……..Harchibald has just stormed back to form.
Jolly definately not for me
I have a feeling fist, you could look rather red faced come Champion Hurdle.
Sublimty’s fourth in the Supreme novice gave a strong hint of more to come. It was far from the worst field of hurdlers he beat in the Champion and he won it with ease. Afsoun could be a bit of ew value if the King doesn’t turn up.Don’t know how you can say Sublimity got beat more times than your carpet. He has run 6 times over hurdles and won 3. In the supreme novice where he was 4th this is what the post said about him
"Sublimity did ever so well to get fourth given that he was hampered by the loose Pablo du Charmil on the turn down the hill. That made his life much harder but he still came quickly back on the bridle and proceeded to run a huge race. Not surprisingly for a miler on the Flat, he possesses tons of speed, but he stays well enough too, and has a big race in him"Hurdling might need a star, but are today’s crop really 12 – 15lb worse than Istabraq, or was he a bit overrated ?
"………..Sublimity did ever so well………….."
Did a Racing Post journalist actually write THAT???
Colin
That may be so Triple Crown (though not necessarily something I would agree with), but the difference is that Istabraq used to cuff them all, without ever coming off the bridle to do it.
I hate to say the ‘A’ word, but saying hurdling needs another Istabraq is like saying chasing needs another Arkle, or football needs another Pelé. An Istrabraq comes along once in a generation, we’d be very lucky to see his like again within the next 10 years!
In the last 3-4 years we’ve had Hardy Eustace, Brave Inca and Sublimity, all of whom you’d classify perfectly good CH winners, and on top of them the likes of Harchibald and Rooster Booster, by no means bad horses, left to fill mere places (admittedly RB won it in ’02). 2m hurdling may not be enjoying the glory days like 2m chasing had a couple of years ago, or that staying chasing will have (fingers crossed!) for the next couple, but I wouldn’t say it’s in a bad state at all.And FWIW, I don’t see why Sublimity can’t be the one to answer your particular prayers, mdwillis. Very excited about him.
I would tend to agree that Istabraq didn’t beat top quality fields in any of his Champion Hurdles but I would also agree that he won all three easily enough. I think the only horse at the time that would have given him a race was Dato Star on soft ground and whilst I also think he would have beaten the likes of Hardy Eustace , Brave Inca etc I think the last 5/6 years were better quality fields with the above two, Macs Joy & Harchibald all rated in the high 160’s.
As for Sublimity I think he is decent and if he turns up at his best next March he will won comfortably. The only perceived danger might be Harchibald as he travels as well as Sublimity but I would still prefer Sublimity to show him a clean pair of heels up the hill.
I’ve seen some nonsense on this forum over the last few days, but this thread has to sit right up there with the best of it.
Why, in all that is holy, does hurdling need another Istabraq?
When it comes to top flight hurdling I want to see competitive, enthralling, exciting racing from top class racehorses – and at what point in the last 5-10 years have we not had that?
Over the minimum trip we have had the likes of Brave Inca, Hardy Eustace, Harchibald, Rooster Booster, Intersky Falcon, Rhinestone Cowboy and Macs Joy, with a supporting cast comprising Straw Bear, Asian Maze, Iktitaf, Al Eile, Essex, Landing Light and Hors La Loi III.
And at staying distances we’ve seen Iris’s Gift, Rhinestone Cowboy (again), Crystal D’Ainay, Mighty Man, Inglis Drever, Solerina, Limestone Lad and the mighty Baracouda.
Can you, in all honesty, say that those lists are disappointing in any way, considering also that they don’t include the ‘barn storming’ battles as per Brave Inca vs War of Attrition?
Istabraq was a special hurdler, in much the same way Kauto Star is a special chaser, but their presence is not a requirement if the racing is competitive and high class. Obviously it’s nice to see a horse of such (immeasurable) ability, and to be around when such an animal exists is truly an honour, but they are few and far between.
If we had had the likes of Desert Quest, Arcalis, Penzance and Noble Request winning Champion Hurdles then I might be inclined to agree with the need for another Istabraq – a true champion racehorse trouncing 140-rated hurdlers is generally preferable to watching the same dross scrap out the sport’s best races – but racing simply can’t hinge on them coming to be. And, as has been shown, we’re OK for now.
Don’t know how you can say Sublimity got beat more times than your carpet. He has run 6 times over hurdles and won 3. In the supreme novice where he was 4th this is what the post said about him
"Sublimity did ever so well to get fourth given that he was hampered by the loose Pablo du Charmil on the turn down the hill. That made his life much harder but he still came quickly back on the bridle and proceeded to run a huge race. Not surprisingly for a miler on the Flat, he possesses tons of speed, but he stays well enough too, and has a big race in him"I haven’t got a carpet
I knew someone would say that 
He’s not a bad horse but a week ago Katchit was a superstar now no one fancies him. That simply wasn’t his running and I would prefer a watching brief next time before discarding him.
The race right now looks nothing special by Champion Hurdle standards and we have last years suprise winner heading the market.
Sublimity is a 7 year old and hardly likely to have improved. He was 16/1 last year and suprised everyone and most of us wouldn’t have backed him with bad money………he is easy to back at 4/1… have you asked yourself why? A good horse would be 6/4 for this champion the way it looks right now.
He simply isn’t that good in the eyes of the bookies and after Xmas when the dust settles I doubt he will even be favourite if something else turns in a good performace.
Long time to Champion hurdle day and we will all be touting something else come March. Only wish I knew what it was.
PS sorry about the carpet thing
Sublimity wins nothing.
I completely agree with LGR. You don’t need individual stars to make for exciting racing. Comparisons between horses are pointless too, it’s not their relative ability that makes them a pleasure to watch and to follow, it’s the races themselves, the glory, the buzz, the close finishes, the character and strengths of the horses, the whole package.
Definitely concur with LGR and Burroughhill here. If the three likeliest protagonists jump the last upsides in the Gold Cup next March, I’m more likely to be thinking, "Cor, this is grand!!", rather than, "Yeah, but how far up or down the track would Best Mate be?"
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
I knew someone would say that 
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