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Posts
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He’s going home and taking his bat and ball with him. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, Gray.
Never knew he was from Hawick. Assumed he was North east (but never did any research on the matter).
I’m a big fan of the James Ewart operation – why won’t they be the force of old in 20111/12 CH?
In light of this and some of NJ Henderson’s escapades, I believe it is time that the BHA licensed vets before they can work on racehorses.
Licensed vets should then be obliged to submit all treatment reports direct to BHA,copied to trainer.
Excellent proposal. Let’s hope the BHA take it up. They could then advise ignorant trainers when submitted medical records indicate a possible breach of the rules if the horse is entered for a race.
Severe penalties could also be applied to trainers/vets who do not submit accurate medical records.He’s going home and taking his bat and ball with him. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, Gray.
Wylie’s reaction
gives the impression
that he not only knew about the practice/s but actually condoned it.
Six effing months? Is that what Wylie considers a punishment, or is it that he was hoping they would yet again ‘kick the issue under the carpet’ like they usually do?
I think the game is better off without his patronage personally, if he is just going to throw his toys out of the pram like this."A lot of my horses will be going to the sales now. I have got to spend Monday going through them with Howard, and I’ll send a few down south, I might send a few to Ireland, and the rest will be going to the sales."
Yep, the words of a person who obviously does it for the love of the game …
Maybe he couldn’t find another trainer willing to administer anabolic steroids to his horses? This annoys me so much."This case should send out a clear message to everyone involved in racing that the welfare of the horse has to come first, not the need to win at any cost."
Exactly right. The
old boy
image of the game has to be quashed for good. Winning doesn’t come at any cost. It has to be achieved without having horses running thru injuries because they can’t feel it.
Well done to all involved at BHA.
Part of me is disappointed that Howard Johnson’s had the opportunity to declare a retirement but I understand the BHA’s position on life bans.
Secondly, I’ve read comments elsewhere calling for Mr Wylie to be charged with bringing the sport into disrepute. I’ve not checked to see if it is possible, but I wouldn’t disagree with any such action. The BHA have treated "Howard like a criminal" line is a fine example of why, as if they’ve acted improperly, which is clearly not the case. On that, I hope the RSPCA and/or the Police take a good look at Howard’s case to see if he can be treated like a criminal.
He’s going home and taking his bat and ball with him. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, Gray.
Wylie’s reaction
gives the impression
that he not only knew about the practice/s but actually condoned it.
Six effing months? Is that what Wylie considers a punishment, or is it that he was hoping they would yet again ‘kick the issue under the carpet’ like they usually do?
I think the game is better off without his patronage personally, if he is just going to throw his toys out of the pram like this."A lot of my horses will be going to the sales now. I have got to spend Monday going through them with Howard, and I’ll send a few down south, I might send a few to Ireland, and the rest will be going to the sales."
Yep, the words of a person who obviously does it for the love of the game …
Maybe he couldn’t find another trainer willing to administer anabolic steroids to his horses? This annoys me so much."This case should send out a clear message to everyone involved in racing that the welfare of the horse has to come first, not the need to win at any cost."
Exactly right. The
old boy
image of the game has to be quashed for good. Winning doesn’t come at any cost. It has to be achieved without having horses running thru injuries because they can’t feel it.
10/10!
- Total Posts 17716
In light of this and some of NJ Henderson’s escapades, I believe it is time that the BHA licensed vets before they can work on racehorses.
Licensed vets should then be obliged to submit all treatment reports direct to BHA,copied to trainer.
Excellent proposal. Let’s hope the BHA take it up.
Heaven help us! The only people who’d gain from this are the Red Tape Merchants, as if we weren’t drowning in the stuff already. If there’s one thing at which we’re perpetually top of the world, it’s breeding Crimson Tape Worms.
Do you realise how critically vets are in short supply? And are you seriously expecting them to spend even more time on paperwork than they do? let alone getting "accredited", passing exams in the Rules of Racing, and doubtless paying too for "licence" and "administration" fees.
Meanwhile the BHA can so very easily afford to put its hand in our pocket to shell out on another batch of qualified staff to deal with licensing the vets, policing the system, collating the red tape, informing the trainers… can’t it? Accountancy Bliss!
The words
knee
and
jerk
occur to me in no particular order. This is a one-off case, there’s never been a denerving case before the BHA before, and likely never will again. Why not get a grip?
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Exactly right. The
old boy
image of the game has to be quashed for good. Winning doesn’t come at any cost. It has to be achieved without having horses running thru injuries because they can’t feel it.
10/10!
And what, pray, has the
"old boy"
image got to do with either Mr Cloth Cap Northern Grit Howard Johnson, or Mr Cloth Cap Sage Centre Wylie?
3/10
The
"image"
of the sport today is once again on the floor. Third up (behind the riots and the financial crisis) on
Radio 4’s PM
programme this evening came
"cruelty in Horse Racing. On top of the death of two horses in the Grand National, and the public outcry over whip abuse, comes another animal welfare scandal…."
And people mumble about the
"old boy image"
! Well, keep fiddling while Rome burns if you choose….
In light of this and some of NJ Henderson’s escapades, I believe it is time that the BHA licensed vets before they can work on racehorses.
Licensed vets should then be obliged to submit all treatment reports direct to BHA,copied to trainer.
Excellent proposal. Let’s hope the BHA take it up.
Heaven help us! The only people who’d gain from this are the Red Tape Merchants, as if we weren’t drowning in the stuff already. If there’s one thing at which we’re perpetually top of the world, it’s breeding Crimson Tape Worms.
Do you realise how critically vets are in short supply? And are you seriously expecting them to spend even more time on paperwork than they do? let alone getting "accredited", passing exams in the Rules of Racing, and doubtless paying too for "licence" and "administration" fees.
Meanwhile the BHA can so very easily afford to put its hand in our pocket to shell out on another batch of qualified staff to deal with licensing the vets, policing the system, collating the red tape, informing the trainers… can’t it? Accountancy Bliss!
The words
knee
and
jerk
occur to me in no particular order. This is a one-off case, there’s never been a denerving case before the BHA before, and likely never will again. Why not get a grip?
Pinza,
I might not have a ‘grip’ and I might have an opinion you disagree with but don’t interpret brevity of expression with ‘knee jerk’.
If jockeys were in critically short supply, would you suggest that they no longer need to be licensed by the BHA thus saving all the admin and associated costs?
The de-nerving case is a secondary driver in my suggestion. The main reason is that I have little doubt that the record-keeping of many vets working for trainers is influenced by trainers (who are ‘paying the piper’).
At the moment, the records kept at the yard are subject to inspection by BHA staff at any time. But that does not mean the records have not been subject to the most beneficial ‘spin’ when being written.
If trainers knew that all veterinary records had to be submitted, on completion, direct to the BHA by the vet, and that the vet’s licence to practise on racehorses depended on the veracity of those reports, I believe they’d be much less inclined to try and influence content.
From the vet’s point of view, I think that, for those depending on the racing industry for the majority of their income, such a system would be welcomed by many. They need not pass exams, just be aware of the Rules and not break any. As for the ‘extra’ work – they are compiling the report anyway for the yard’s log, clicking ‘send’ to dispatch an extra copy to the BHA is hardly onerous.
If welfare is as critical to the BHA as they claim, specially licensed vets should, at least, be considered as a future measure.
Valets, jockey’s agents and equine pools need to be licensed by the BHA. I don’t think it’s too much to ask that vets be added to the list.
The idea of having vets registered or accredited to work with thoroughbreds seems common-sense to me.
Such is the specialised knowledge required that it clearly seems a good idea to ensure they know the time of day. Recent cases would seem to support this proposal.
Pinza – do you have inside info on the red tape or are you guesiing/assuming?
The old boy club is alive and well Pinza, it’s the reason why HJ didn’t get a life ban and also the reason why NH was treat so leniently too. Four years is just enough to say that acted whilst lenient enough as to not look too draconian against ‘their own’.
Mr Wylies reaction is quite revealing. And it seems some people round here apply their common sense when it suits them…. oh so predictably.
Good riddance to the pair of them.
There’s
a "
condemnation
".
- Total Posts 17716
The idea of having vets registered or accredited to work with thoroughbreds seems common-sense to me.
Such is the specialised knowledge required that it clearly seems a good idea to ensure they know the time of day. Recent cases would seem to support this proposal.
Pinza – do you have inside info on the red tape or are you guesiing/assuming?
Neither,
Corm
. I am just using what I suppose you might call "common sense"! You see, I actually spent a (very) little time thinking through the administrative and cost implications of what such a scheme implied.
VETS PERSPECTIVE
Vets already "know the time of day". They also know that there are only 24 hours in one. "Recent cases" in which vets have gone along with treatment plans which were against the rules of racing number precisely two, as far as I can see, and in the case where the vet attempted to "cover up" what he was doing, he was struck off.The professional body would understandably object to yet more paperwork, when vets are already snowed under with work, and red tape.
Steeplechasing
, do you really believe that "accreditation" of a professional body would merely involve blithely c.c.’ing BHA in on all prescriptions? We’re not talking about artisan valets, or agents here: we’re talking about a highly organised professional body, with its own highly developed rule book of procedures and ethics –
including client confidentiality
– which would have to be squared with handing information over to an open "public body". This would perforce involve a hugely complex series of checks and balances.
BHA PERSPECTIVE
We have about 8000 horses in training. Every one must get seen by vets, say an average of three times per year. 24,000 transactions (and that’s leaving out the breeding industry, mares, stallions, foals and yearlings). Who is going to monitor the immense number of these emails whichSteeplechasing
would have arriving on the virtual mat, checking for questionable treatments, policing the system and making sure that every record arrives?
Think about the
legal implications
. It would be up to the BHA to police the system, rather than the individual trainers and the vets, as is now the case. The defence against prosecution:
"you had the data and you never warned us we were breaking the rules of racing for six months"
would make a judgement such as yesterday’s admirable result impossible to obtain.
There have been two, recent high-profile hearings involving dubious professional behaviour from vets. One vet has been struck off as a result. This compares favourably against the number of
human
doctors prosecuted and/or removed from the lists during the same period. Would you really require all of
them
to email their full prescriptions to some central body for policing purposes? What sort of society would result?
In other words, a couple of minutes "common sense" pinpoints just how unworkable – and undesirable – this well-meaning thought actually is.
RACECOURSES
As far as ARVS goes, they are actually ahead of you on this one. See this link for their thoughts on accreditation for racecourse vets.http://www.arvs.org.uk/advice_criteria.html
You can see the complexities involved over this one, simple thing. Yet this area is simplicity itself, compared against extending such accreditation to the
entire profession
.
- Total Posts 17716
The old boy club is alive and well Pinza, it’s the reason why HJ didn’t get a life ban and also the reason why NH was treat so leniently too. Four years is just enough to say that acted whilst lenient enough as to not look too draconian against ‘their own’.
May I take the liberty of quoting
Silvoir
‘s posting on another thread?
Will keep this brief because all if the above comments are either made by people who’ve not read the reasons to both hearings or have, but simply refuse to recognise key, major differences. Why people would do this I have no idea, other than to fuel some (possibly once in the dim and distant past holding occasional merit) prejudicial and out of date view about those that work for the regulator being from public school:
"Each cases warrants closer inspection of the facts. Anabolic steroids are prohibited except in wholly exceptional circumstances, as highlighted within our Rules. This is very different from a legitimate medication, even if administered at an entirely inappropriate and against the Rules of Racing."
Lots of huge, blindingly obvious differences, that I should really wait until 7 days to appeal has expired to lay out."
I’m not defending Howard Johnson in any way, but I have been wondering about how much it affects a small trainer to suddenly have a high profile owner with huge amounts of money to spend but with expectations of winning lots of races. The pressure must be immense. A bit of a poisoned chalice, perhaps.
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Others have coped with those pressures,
Moehat
, and I feel that there are no excuses for him. None the less, what with the arson, the armed robbery, and now this … the Gods have not been looking kindly on him. It’s only human to have a little sympathy for the man – not to mention (more to the point) his entire staff and suppliers.
It’s just that I’d forgotten that he’d trained horses like Morceli and Grey Abbey so must have been a talented trainer. Having said that the things I started to hear about him in the news over the past few years made me wonder how anyone could have so much ‘bad luck’. Any sympathy I feel is overshadowed by what I feel for Striking Article who seEmed such a tough and genuine horse. It’s all terribly sad on so many levels.
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