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If all class 6 handicaps apart from class 5 maidens isn’t poor quality I don’t know what is. Musselburgh’s were class 4’s. Of course Newcastle had big fields, that’s what happens when poor quality is catered for at the expense of better quality.
eddie
The top rated in the Consolation races at Musselburgh were 66,64 and 68. Given that two handicap contests at Newcastle were 0-65 and the rest 0-60, on the face of it there was only a marginal difference in quality between Musselburgh and Newcastle. The difference, and presumably the reason you dismiss it, is that the winner’s prize money for each of Saturday’s events was around £4,800. I didn’t see too much wrong with the quality of the races at Musselburgh.
Rob
It’s much the same as saying ‘I only bet in handicaps of 0-80 or better’ by scanning the race conditions for all such handicaps and betting them, without looking what the topweight is actually running off. Many a putative 0-80 may actually be a 0-73, 0-77 or whatever; or more accurately still by considering the weight-spread and realising the race is actually, say, a 65-77 because the weights are compressed. This may mean the race is more ‘competitive’ than one which is factually a 50-80 having the the full two stone spread with the bottom weight(s) out of the handicap proper
A quality post and a point worth reiterating to the hilt.
In a similar vein, my research into the races held at Ffos Las under both code to date revealed that the fledgling venue hosted its first ever claiming hurdle in August of last year.
Doubtless many would have reacted to the news with cries of "Urgh! Claimer!", or "Urgh! Class 5!", but a closer inspection of the contest advises that the participants were all rated between 107 and 130.
That’s the stuff of many a solid Class 3 handicap’s make-up, of course, but the mere framing of this example race as a less financially well-endowed claimer magically seems to turn it into a
non grata
event for some.
Note also that the first, and to date only, selling hurdle at the course (a non-handicap event) from April of this year attracted a sole runner rated 87 and the remainder rated 103 to 110. Again, the stuff of an evidently more palatable class 4 handicap ordinarily.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
- Total Posts 17716
Why do folk use the ‘Class’ of a race to determine the calibre of the contestants? The BHA’s race categorization into Classes is no more than an arbitrary distinction based on prizemoney; hence in these straitened times there’s going to be a general lowering of Class
Drone
, whilst there is much practical good sense in your post concerning the actual calibre of participants, this doesn’t seem to tally with what we read on the BHA website about Handicap Classification on the Flat:
Handicaps are divided up from Class 2-7 to make sure horses of similar ratings are racing against each other:
Class 2 – Heritage Handicaps, Handicaps of rating 86-100, 91-105 and 96-110
Class 3 – Handicaps of 76-90, and 81-95
Class 4 – Handicaps of rating 66-80, and 71-85
Class 5 – Handicaps of rating 56-70, and 61-75
Class 6 – Handicaps of rating 46-60, and 51-65
Class 7 – Handicaps of rating 46-50So there’s no mention here of prize money determining the Class of race, only ratings. Have I misunderstood your point, or the BHA’s system?
Oh dear it would appear I’ve made a booboo
and that should be a lesson not to comment on a code I haven’t followed at all outside Pattern races for five years. It would seem the handicap structure on the Flat has changed markedly since thenI was under the impression that many courses were downgrading their races from say Class 4 to 5 in order to allot reduced prizemoney at or below the maximum stipulated by the lower Class
So, Class is determined by handicap rating and not prizemoney then? Or are both a consideration?
I don’t understand, therefore I’ll ‘get me coat’
Grayson , surely vested interest has coloured your view ,
I must counter that it hasn’t.
That would suggest I’ve only been a lover, or indeed defender, of yesterday’s brand of lower-grade fare since the comparatively recent advent of the freelance work to which you seem to be referring.
Compelling evidence to the contrary, however, has been provided across most of what currently works out at getting on for 10,000 posts across TRF, the first incarnation of
Neigh
(before it unfortunately crashed),
Jumping For Fun
and heaven knows where else for a decade now (seven and a half years of it here alone).
Moreover, the sensibilities shown in those posts has been founded on thirty years’ worth of following the sport, first and foremost at the lowest level. Again, as I’m sure has been mentioned
en passant
on here before, it was watching the likes of Straight Cash, Space Baby, Basil’s Choice, Big Bryma, etc. contesting moderately endowed fare around the likes of Wolverhampton, Nottingham and Market Rasen on
The ITV Seven
that fired the initial interest as least as much as – and evidently more than – grander horses and grander races elsewhere.
No, I’m afraid that if I’ve ever been "coloured" by anything, it would solely have been by the enchantment this sport offers at even the most workaday level – and that endures as much now as ever it did a very, very long time ago.
Enjoy your racing, of whatever creed, and very best wishes for now,
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
- Total Posts 17716
I was under the impression that many courses were downgrading their races from say Class 4 to 5 in order to allot reduced prizemoney at or below the maximum stipulated by the lower Class
So, Class is determined by handicap rating and not prizemoney then? Or are both a consideration?
You’re right, in the sense that they are reducing the Class of many races, to reduce the prize money.
But they are doing this, not in line with BHA stipulations on prize money (there aren’t any at this level, except for Heritage Handicaps – I think) but in order to sneak round the Horsemen’s "Tariff", to avoid any threat of boycotts. The Tariff, not the BHA, specified the prize money / Class links.
That’s why that august organisation has shot itself so spectacularly in the foot.
The top rated in the Consolation races at Musselburgh were 66,64 and 68. Given that two handicap contests at Newcastle were 0-65 and the rest 0-60, on the face of it there was only a marginal difference in quality between Musselburgh and Newcastle. The difference, and presumably the reason you dismiss it, is that the winner’s prize money for each of Saturday’s events was around £4,800. I didn’t see too much wrong with the quality of the races at Musselburgh.
Rob
There wasn’t, it was an excellent effort and initiative by Musselburgh that should be applauded unlike the garbage served up at Northern Racing flat tracks (Newcastle, Bath, Chepstow,Brighton, Yarmouth)
It was understandable the top rated in the consolation races should be so low although they could have been much higher with being class 4.
The difference is Newcastle are only catering for the bottom rung and thus don’t put the prize money up, The Musselburgh races prize money were more than 300% higher than the Newcastle ones.You’re right, in the sense that they are reducing the Class of many races, to reduce the prize money.
But they are doing this, not in line with BHA stipulations on prize money (there aren’t any at this level, except for Heritage Handicaps – I think) but in order to sneak round the Horsemen’s "Tariff", to avoid any threat of boycotts. The Tariff, not the BHA, specified the prize money / Class links.
Thank you Pinza
Prizemoney by Class is a Horsemen’s Tariff wheeze and nothing to do with the official BHA determination of Class by handicap band
On reflection I think I actually knew that
so I’ll put the error down to a senior moment; moments that are alas becoming increasingly frequentAnyway got it now, must remember it
One just for fun for the anoraks, and in reference to a comment on this thread…
Name the last Derby winner to race on a Monday during his career?
Are you going to keep us in suspense forever? I’ll plump for Diomed at Lewes
Who cares about the low grade racing at Newcastle & Bath?
Well, people who live in or near Newcastle & Bath for starters.
Compare what some of you say about racing to football. What you’re complaining about is too much Northern Counties League & not enough League One. Well I’ve been round the Northern Counties League & the love of the game from the attendees & the participants is unquestionable.
Damn right it should be treasured.
Who cares about the low grade racing at Newcastle & Bath?
Well, people who live in or near Newcastle & Bath for starters.
Compare what some of you say about racing to football. What you’re complaining about is too much Northern Counties League & not enough League One. Well I’ve been round the Northern Counties League & the love of the game from the attendees & the participants is unquestionable.
Damn right it should be treasured.
Would your regular beat include Sheffield FC, the world’s oldest football club, Scamperdale? I attended the pre-season friendly they had at the Dronfield ground with Grimsby Town (having friends who are fans of either or in some cases both) back on July 20th, I think it was; and it was the cheeriest, most dedicated and heartfelt footballing experience I’ve witnessed for many a long year. A return visit is already programmed.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Would your regular beat include Sheffield FC, the world’s oldest football club, Scamperdale? I attended the pre-season friendly they had at the Dronfield ground with Grimsby Town (having friends who are fans of either or in some cases both) back on July 20th, I think it was; and it was the cheeriest, most dedicated and heartfelt footballing experience I’ve witnessed for many a long year. A return visit is already programmed.
gc
It would indeed. I used to work in Dronfield not half a mile from the Coach & Horses Ground (or whatever it’s sponsors name is these days) in fact Sheffield moved there during the time I worked around there. Was originally the ground of the Coach & Horses pub team.
Before that they played at Don Valley stadium which must have been fun. A couple of hundred diehards pottering around England’s biggest athletics stadium!
Given their nomadic existence, they’re justifiably proud to have their own home though they might be on the move again soon. They’ve got ambitions & that ground isn’t suitable to much expansion. Like Old Trafford, it’s not helped by a railway line passing behind it.
The world’s oldest club, never been popular, always played around the basement leagues, bigger more glamorous clubs in each direction. Were they to be a racecourse, some here would shut them down.
Just to emphasise my ‘anorak credentials’, I went to the Coach & Horses Ground in the early 90s when it was home to Norton Woodseats FC. The ground was rather ‘tumbledown’ at the time and has certainly had some serious upgrading since.
Incidentally I believe Sheffield FC also spent a short time playing at Owlerton Greyhound Stadium.
Rob
P.S. I think this thread may have wandered off topic …
A small bit off topic indeed ….still for all those racing aficionados, I appreciate the point , racing no matter how bad it is , will be supported by folks locally …and thats good I reckon
However there is a bigger picture which you anoraks want to keep ignoring , and that is , if you keep supplying low grade fare on a regular basis , punters will eventually migrate to other sports (and roulette machines) which is getting close to doomsday for the funding of the sport
So you cannot have it all ways chaps
Enjoy the dross
Ricky
Incidentally I believe Sheffield FC also spent a short time playing at Owlerton Greyhound Stadium..
They played at Abbeydale Park when I lived in Sheffield. Shamefully, neither I nor to the best of my knowledge any of my family ever attended one of their games. Which is akin to those who do all their shopping at Tesco moaning about the loss of Corner Shops
Are football teams affiliated to the FA in the lower divisions (Conference, Northern Premier etc) in receipt of any financial support from the FA i.e the equivalent of a ‘levy’ payment, or do they go it alone?
‘Two tier’ racing has been mooted by some, so perhaps the BHA etc should explore football’s financial and regulatory structure if we are to keep all 60 Rules racecourses extant over what appears to be a rather bleak-looking near future
A feast at Wolves tonight. Four nicely subscribed and competitive handicaps, the Prescott hotpot, a couple of Godolphin newcomers, a Quinlan horse for the notebook, and two great jockeys, mob-handed.
All weather’s betting exchange customers will conservatively match three million pounds plus on the eight contests. Racing wont see too much of it however, for it hasn’t the brains…that’s where the real dross resides.
"penniless clowns" – Glenn (of the forum).
However there is a bigger picture which you anoraks want to keep ignoring , and that is , if you keep supplying low grade fare on a regular basis , punters will eventually migrate to other sports (and roulette machines) which is getting close to doomsday for the funding of the sport
It isn’t the migration of punters that’s screwed up the Levy, it’s the migration of bookmakers.
What will see punters migrate is people who are supposedly on the side of racing telling everyone what they’ve just seen is garbage and/or bent.
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