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Here we go again…
The Horserace Betting Levy Board invites responses on various questions relating to and arising out of the issue of whether certain users of betting exchanges should be regarded as being leviable bookmakers for the purpose of the Levy. The particular issues on which responses are sought are set out in section J of this paper.
http://www.hblb.org.uk/document.php?id=360
Quick out of the blocks…
http://www.britishhorseracing.presscent … wsAreaID=2“Racing is on the receiving end of exploitation by the entire gambling sector, abusing every loophole available, to the detriment of Racing and those within the sport. A major sector of British life is in danger of being throttled.
“As one example, in 2009 Betfair made a ‘voluntary’ payment to the Levy Board. This year that contribution has disappeared.
This would be the same voluntary contribution Betfair was prevented from claiming as a levy payment by the BHA.
http://markxdavies.blogspot.com/2010/02 … ement.htmlNothing from Ralph Topping yet.
Betfair have always claimed to be a bookmaker, in agreement with the Gambling Commission, so they already have to pay levy by law. Don’t know what the other exchanges do.
They seem to have double counted the back and lay racing volumes on exchanges.
DCMS have already told them in 2009 that it is not value for money to change things and that identifying users as a business who do not have a business is impossible.
If DCMS lose half their staff in current cuts then definitely nothing will ever happen – papers just stick in the in-tray limbo.Can we ever have a consultation paper that does not just paper over the cracks? Racing has to fund itself from race meetings and on-course betting – the levy will just sink year by year else – the slow death of racing.
The Racing Post article says that Betfair already pays 10% of gross profits as Levy.
GETTING CERTAIN BETTING EXCHANGE CUSTOMERS TO PAY LEVY IS TOTALLY UNFAIR AS THEY ARE ALREADY PAYING IT VIA THE BETFAIR CONTRIBUTION.
END OF CONSULTATION.
NOW F*** OFF LEVY BOARD AND GET THE MONEY OFF THE BOOKMAKERS INSTEAD.
Hope that helps.
I hope racing in Britain’s collapses – I seriously do. Another ridiculous thing to waste time on. Start funding yourself, BHA, via the TurfTV money which miraculously disappeared – or more like was of no direct benefit to the industry. Apart from the fact the BHA never saw the money as they don’t own the media rights.
Which sort of sums this mess up.And I’d like to know why the bookmakers, Betfair or any-one else should continue to fund Racing in Britain? I can’t think of one good reason. They pay up x amount and we get y amount of more fixtures and new races. Now they have a shortfall they threaten less races. So what. As Chapman said the other day there is no British Racing PLC. It’s just a load of different fractions fighting for their share of the cake.
Can anyone tell me more about the BHA’s legal right to run racing unopposed as a governing body in Britain? The BHA can’t come up with one good idea of their own to get a bit more for racing. Go and try and claim 50% of what the breeding sales companies make, or something else just as ridiculous, Mr Roy.
In addition to my above post, the big hitters on betfair already pay a Premium Charge. This is part of betfair’s gross profits from which the levy contribution is calculated, so the big operators on betfair are already contributing more Levy than the rest of us.
£20 billion turnover betfair= £5Million levy
£20 billion turnover big 3/4= £200 million levy
lets return to 8% govt. tax turnover + 1% levy
Barry, you’re brighter than to pretend that’s a fair comparison.
http://markxdavies.blogspot.com/2010/02 … etric.htmlBetfair takes its gloves off…
“Today’s announcement by the Levy Board, together with the statement from Nic Coward of the BHA, illustrates exactly why we have redirected our voluntary levy payment. We have not withdrawn this money from British Racing; we have withdrawn our donation to the Levy Board and BHA. We want to make sure that it is spent to deliver real benefits to the sport rather than being diluted by middlemen and the accompanying costs that cover their salaries, pensions contributions and the substantial legal bills incurred in a sustained and discriminatory attack on our business.”
This promises to be good fun.
Whereas Betfair used to have plenty of unpaid ambassadors among its own customers who stood up to attempts to take punitive action against the company or its users, I rather suspect that, in a post-Premium Charge world, Betfair will have to fight this battle on its own.
I could do with a lot of help from someone successful with a good brain,
Know anyone?
Andrew Black?
I could do with a lot of help from someone successful with a good brain,
Know anyone?
Sorry, my budgie’s not available for further bookmaking commissions at present.
The essential problem with you feather bedded, ranting, backward looking, far left wing extremists is that you can write a statement:
"lets return to 8% govt. tax turnover + 1% levy", without blushing.
Why not write or even think in terms of "lets move to 0% govt. tax on turnover + 5% levy"? Everyone gains.
Your proletariat wage slave drones have already paid up to 50% tax of their unearned salaries before they can even think of betting with what’s left.£20 billion turnover betfair= £5Million levy
£20 billion turnover big 3/4= £200 million levy
lets return to 8% govt. tax turnover + 1% levy
Surely to return to a time of 8% ‘govt’ tax there would have had to have been such a time in the past. The highest I ever recall was 7.75%. Were you referring to the period of 6.75% govt tax plus 1.25% trilateral tribute?
If The Rabble want to stick it up Big Blue then surely they should compete with them directly rather than knocking on the governments door asking for the sport to be taxed into extinction.
How hard can it be to lure punters away from a betting medium where they get blatantly fleeced on several horses/races every day? Push exotic betting properly, where insiders can’t just use one snippet of info as a cash machine, and you’ll have fed up punters flocking.
A Tote with a 5% win takeout based on a 200 grand pool per race, times 24 races a day. Thats 240 grand a day, 87 million a year based on 363 days racing. After costs perhaps 60 million a year for the levy from the win pool alone.
A resurgent Tote with a 500 shop high street presence offering better prices on racing, becoming a credible alternative for the betting shop punter, forcing the bookmakers to offer a better deal to their everyday shop customer.
A lottery racing game for 1 race on a Saturday. 16 runner narrow band handicap televised on C4 Racing, scratch the card to reveal 5 racing silks, your 5 silks finish 1-2-3-4-5 you win a huge cash prize. Prizes in descending order depending on how many silks on your scratch card are placed. Uniform colours and reserve runners to ensure 16 runners every week. 50 million lottery tickets a week sold in the UK. Tap into 2% of that market at 2 quid a ticket for 52 weeks a year minus 50% for operating costs, donations to charity, prizemoney etc… thats another 50 million for the levy, the housewife, OAP, student market engaged.
A levy on the breeding industry. A percentage of the annual stallion fees returned to the levy if above a predetermined annual threshold, if that stallion has won a Group 1 in the UK. For example Sea The Stars first book of 90 mares will gross over 7.5 million for the owners. How much of that will go back to the racecourses or the sport that made that fee possible in the first place?
Legally binding contracts signed between the ROA and the racecourses to guarantee a percentage of media rights for prizemoney. The ROA withdraw their horses otherwise. The courses soon see sense.
Admittedly my figures are general but they are in my opinion conservative. So you’d have 60 million from the Tote Exchange, 50 million from the scratch cards, lets say half the existing levy from the bookmakers at 40 million, 5 million from the exchanges, and your already at 155 million before you even start looking at media rights and a breeding levy.
You’d then be looking at a largely self funded sport with a future providing good prizmoney for owners and a good product for customers, everyone’s a winner.
A Tote with a 5% win takeout based on a 200 grand pool per race, times 24 races a day. Thats 240 grand a day, 87 million a year based on 363 days racing. After costs perhaps 60 million a year for the levy from the win pool alone.
Nice in theory Cav but it would probably bankrupt the Tote.
Their annual operating costs are £139.9m, in addition they have an £8m pensions deficit, add to that £31.9m in short term loans and £59m in 1-5 year loans there is no way they could support a 5% takeout in any pool, not least one of the major pools.
Nice in theory Cav but it would probably bankrupt the Tote.
Their annual operating costs are £139.9m, in addition they have an £8m pensions deficit, add to that £31.9m in short term loans and £59m in 1-5 year loans there is no way they could support a 5% takeout in any pool, not least one of the major pools.
Take your points, Paul. In my suggestion I’m assuming the Tote would already have ceased to exist in its current form.
At present it takes 19000 employees of that organisation to produce less then a 10 million pound return to the sport. Contrast that to Betfair who make not too far off the same contribution with about 12% of the employees and a fraction of the market takeout.
Pension deficits, redundancy payments and debt could be covered with the proceeds of the sale if it ever comes about. Would be worth it in the longterm imo.
Cav et all , this is just a smoke screen , the amount raised even if they got Betfair to pay double would be at best 15 millon …mere change
Mr Roy and his mates should look at the media rights money and have a chunk of that , as its quite meaty
I mean if we can see it why cant they ???
Ricky
Which sort of sums this mess up.
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