- This topic has 143 replies, 67 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Miss Woodford quote:
You can foxhunt for years and never see a fox get killed. In many cases it’s the fox who is in control of the situation and will lead the hunt around in circles until he gets bored.
There’s also the fact that fox, and more importantly coyote hunting is a public service-these animals are in no way endangered and kill livestock and horses. Coyotes are nasty things, impossible to hunt on foot, and too smart for traps.
I can’t have this, in the same way as when people say horses enjoy racing and I say it is not possible to know what emotion or feeling an animal is having, to assume to know what is going through a foxes mind when it is being hunted and put it this casually is taking a defence of hunting too far.
It is highly unlikely a fox that is being pursued by a pack of hounds intent on tearing it to pieces to please the noisy crowd of people on horseback following it, is either in control of the situation or just leading the hunt in circles until he gets bored.
We are all animals at the end of the day and I suspect if I and a group of drunken loud friends were pursuing anyone reading this with murderous intent, even if you had some element of control by being faster or off the mark first, I doubt you would really be in control of the situation or leading us in circles till you got bored – you would be absolutely sh**ting yourself afraid of the consequences if you were caught which you would know could happen.
If there are too many foxes or coyotes or other species encroaching on our teritory, it is perhaps because we create the environment for them to do so, we could maybe change the environment rather than kill animals, particularly in such a cruel way.
Racing should distance itself from hunting which is a separate discussion perhaps for a separate thread and I still think the national should not be singled out for attack just because it is the most observed race – that is like brushing under the carpet the 99.999% of equine deaths caused by the rest of NH and flat racing and would be the start of the end for NH racing.
The Sun must have been very torn in the aftermath, wanting to show scenes of horror and yet wanting to boast of how their tipster told everyone to back the winner.
moehat
I can’t imagine how The Sun using two of their faces at the same time would trouble them…
Rob
Well,
Let’s face it…the GN has been a bit unlucky the last couple of years. But, lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater. The GN is one of the greatest spectacles in the world.
It is also very rare for horses to be hurt in jump racing…I realize everyone has their own idea of what that is…
However, you can go to the jumps several times a year and never see a horse put down.
Lets get real here and back this GN like there is no tomorrow. Now is the time to support the great sport… Not get timid and give in to people who profess to love horses, but want to wipe the sport out. This could only have a very tragic outcome for the horses…
and mankind….as far as I’m concerned.
I absolutley agree, if the the GN is banned then you might as well ban all equine sports. A show jumping friend recently returned from a big competition abroad where 2 horses died. No body uttered a word! There are more fatal injuries occuring when horses are turned out to grass than anywhere else.
Seven,
The Last Fling definitely didn’t get up from his fall. Sadly, he was one of my favourites.
I wasn’t even going to justify Miss Woodford’s cartoonish defence with a response but indeed the "Should racing distance itself from hunting" debate would look interesting on another thread.
I’ve trawled through the RP database and compiled the stats correlating going, speed of the race, numbers of finishers and fatalities. I thought I was getting somewhere as I remembered 94 and 01 being deceptively safe despite the small number of finishers and bottomless ground. 1998 came along and made a pigs ear of anything conclusive but it would be interesting to see if anybody has further data that runs along similar themes.
0 Deaths
1988 Good to Soft 9m 53.5s (9/40)
1992 Good to Soft 9m 06.4s (22/40)
1994 Heavy 10m 18.8s (6/36)
1995 Good 9m 04.1s (15/35)
2000 Good 9m 09.7s (17/40)
2001 Heavy 11m 00.1s (4/40)
2004 Good 9m 20.3s (11/39)
2005 Good to Soft 9m 20.8s (21/40)
2010 Good 9m 04.6s (14/40)1 Death
1991 Good to Soft 9m 29.9s (17/40)
1996 Good 9m 00.8s (17/27)
1999 Good 9m 14.1s (18/32)
2003 Good 9m 21.7s (14/40)
2006 Good to Soft 9m 41.0s (9/40)
2007 Good 9m 13.6s (12/40)
2008 Good 9m 16.6s (15/40)
2009 Good to soft 9m 32.9s (17/40)2 Deaths
1989 Heavy 10m 06.9s (14/40)
1990 Firm 8m 47.8s (20/38)
1997 Good 9m 05.9s (17/36)
2002 Good 9m 08.6s (11/40)
2011 Good 9m 01.2s (19/40)
2012 Good 9m 05.1s (15/40)3 Deaths
1998 Soft 10m 51.5s (6/37)
I also made a list of non fatalities who’s careers may or may not have been ended by the race. I’ve chosen horses aged ten or under as it was very feasible looking at the older horses to assume that they had simply retired. Horses like Deep Bramble, Star Traveller and Youlneverwalkalone however were certainly stopped in their prime because of the race.
Horses aged 10 or younger for whom the Grand National was the last race.
1988 Rhyme ‘N’ Reason, Smith’s Man
1990 Charter Hardware
1991 Fraze*
1995 Dubacilla*
1996 Deep Bramble
1998 Pond House
1999 Blue Charm, St Mellion Fairway, Coome Hill, Tamarindo
2000 Star Traveller, Stormy Passage
2002 Lyreen Wonder
2003 Youlneverwalkalone
2004 Southern Star, Joss Naylor
2007 Liberthine*, Longshanks
2009 Butler’s Cabin, Fleet Street, Reveillez
2011 Big Fella Thanks, Surface To Air*, Silver By Nature*, Bluesea Cracker**Fraze was Czech trained, Dubacilla, Liberthine and Bluesea Cracker were all mares, Surface To Air was offered at auction last spring and Silver By Nature was reportedly in good form over the summer.
Don’t forget though, as I stated earlier about it not all being black and white – the fatality figures have to factor in accidents that would have happened regardless of field size, going or track run on i.e. McKelvey running into railings, Graphic Approach…etc.
Don’t forget though, as I stated earlier about it not all being black and white – the fatality figures have to factor in accidents that would have happened regardless of field size, going or track run on i.e. McKelvey running into railings, Graphic Approach…etc.
Of course there will be anomalies and freak accidents which skew the statistics which is why I suggested a larger sample.
As for Graphic Approach, I would dispute the assertion that it was death due to heat exhaustion as he most probably picked up his fatal head injury from the fall at Bechers.
Dubacilla retired to the paddocks and only died a few months ago having bred some decent horses. Coome Hill died after an operation, but I don’t know if that was a result of an injury in the race. Longshanks had an accident on the gallops I believe just before he was due to retire. I’d hope that Bluesea and Libhertine have gone to the paddocks also. It isn’t just the National. I sometimes look at old racecards or old Jumping Prospect books and feel shocked to realise how few of the horses in them are racing still. I looked up Star Traveller the other day, and it didn’t say he has died, so I hope he’s having a happy retirement somewhere
.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.