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Nice to see her winning her 10th Group 1 today and equalling the record of Miesque.
I know it is difficult to compare great horses over the decades, but I would be interested in hearing views about the 2 great maresHard to compare, of course but we might be able to compare her to Zenyatta should their paths cross at The Breeders Cup, I think I’d slightly favour the American mare but surely it would be very close to call
Hard to compare, of course but we might be able to compare her to Zenyatta should their paths cross at The Breeders Cup, I think I’d slightly favour the American mare but surely it would be very close to call
I think I’d do the opposite and favour Goldikova over Zenyatta. Yes the American mare is undefeated, but I believe Goldikova has raced in far tougher races more frequently, especially against males (six of which she’s won, compared to Zenyatta’s single victory). She has also raced in three countries, including travelling to Zenyatta’s home turf, whereas the latter has only left California twice.
I haven’t analysed Zenyatta’s form, but I did an article a couple of weeks ago examining the number of Group/Grade 1 winners Goldikova has beaten and the results were extraordinary.
Finally, there are many more Grade 1 races in America, so I think it is more of an achievement to win that many in Europe, where top class horses are more likely to race (and defeat) each other due to more limited opportunities.
I doubt they will meet at Breeders Cup – Zenyatta will run in the Classic and Goldikova the mile.
I have begged the question twice on the RP site, whilst Goldikova and Mieqsue both won 10 Group 1’s, Dahlia also equalled this feat – but she is getting no credit at all.
I have trawled the web and believe Nelson Bunker Hunt’s great mare to have won the following 10 (not 11 as someone on the RP site suggested in the comments) – confirmed by John Randall in attached article – http://www.thefreelibrary.com/For+the+r … a073521080):-
1973
Prix Saint Alary
Irish Oaks
King George VI & Queen E.
Washington International
1974
Grand Prix De Saint-Cloud
King George VI & Queen E.
Man o’ War Stakes
Benson & Hedges Gold Cup
1975
Benson & Hedges Gold Cup
1976
Hollywood Invitational Handicap…aren’t you missing one?
Canadian International [1974], or was that not a Gr. 1 then, I think it was….?
…oh p.s. happy to admit Wikipedia helped jog my memory
Both brilliant fillies. Freddie Head of course was the jockey of one and now trainer of another. Both had/have an astonishing turn of foot but, of the two, I slightly favour Miesque, whose consecutive Breeder’s Cup mile winning races were on extremes of going – and (arguably) she beat a stronger field than Goldikova did – when winning in 1988.
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…aren’t you missing one?
Canadian International [1974], or was that not a Gr. 1 then, I think it was….?
…oh p.s. happy to admit Wikipedia helped jog my memory
Thanks for that. According to http://www.pedigreequery.com it was still a Grade 2 when she won that race. I have looked for definitive comfirmation of when it was upgraded but yet to find some.
Apparently I am informed the RP are talking just in terms of European Trained fillies – although Dahlia’s first 9 came in Europe but 10th was when she was trained by Charlie Wittingham in USA – I think thats a bit harsh as she was a filly who along with Allez Framnce set the racing scene alive between 1973-75 in Europe and perhaps deserves a bit more credit. At times it seems like the modern sport refuses to acknowledge anything done proior to the mid-80s.
Ho hum!
If only Zarkava had hung around, she never broke a sweat to beat Goldikova, twice. The mind can only imagine just how good she was
Thanks for that. According to http://www.pedigreequery.com it was still a Grade 2 when she won that race. I have looked for definitive comfirmation of when it was upgraded but yet to find some.
Apparently I am informed the RP are talking just in terms of European Trained fillies – although Dahlia’s first 9 came in Europe but 10th was when she was trained by Charlie Wittingham in USA…
…oh, ok I didn’t know that, thanks for telling me.
She didn’t seem to like racing in France much, did she? – perhaps she knew no one was watchingHard to split them, so Miesque gets it over Goldikova, as she won a 2yo G1, and she also won a Classic.
Hard to split them, so Miesque gets it over Goldikova, as she won a 2yo G1, and she also won a Classic.
Thats a fair point gerald. She actually won two classics as she supplement her Newmarket win with the Pouliches – which is a feat only Imprudence, Ravinella and Special Duty have achieved. So I suppose from that perspective you would have to say Mieqsue does indeed edge the arguement.
There is absolutely no question that Goldikove was incapable of dealing with Zarkava, although she was evidently the superior to Natagora which means she probably would have won the English Guineas – but she never turned up so I imagine the lack of a classic in her cv will always give Miesque the edge.
What both fillies can say is they defeated the best colts over a mile – Mieszque accounted fro Warning wherea Goldi has dealt with Henrythenavigator and Paco Boy.
I suppose this year you would want her to take on Canford Cliffs to really cement her reputation, but it does not seem like that is going to happen.
Re: Dahlia.
Fantastic filly though she was, we musn’t forget that in all their meetings, she never once defeated that other great French trained filly (and biggest rival) , Allez France, who slammed Dahlia by an incredible 15 lengths in the Prix Ganay.
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Re: Dahlia.
Fantastic filly though she was, we musn’t forget that in all their meetings, she never once defeated that other great French trained filly (and biggest rival) , Allez France, who slammed Dahlia by an incredible 15 lengths in the Prix Ganay.
That’s a fair point, although Allez France never won outside of her native France – both fillies were intriguing for those two facts. To be fair to Dahlia, the Ganay was run to early in the season for her to be seen to best effect – she was very much a Summer filly/mare something which seemed to become more pronounced the older she got.
I think Allez France was withdrawn on the eve of the King George in 1974, and I am sure Dahlia would have had her revenge that day – but we will never know, though taking a 1973 line through Rheingold Dahlia had the edge over Allez France over 12 furlongs!
I don’t doubt also that if Allez France had been kept in training at 6 she would have amassed a haul of 10 Group 1s too – she only needed two more at the time of her retirement.
I don’t doubt also that if Allez France had been kept in training at 6 she would have amassed a haul of 10 Group 1s too – she only needed two more at the time of her retirement.- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.