- This topic has 861 replies, 151 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 6 months ago by
.
- Posts
Yes…I always thought Goodwood would be just about the least suitable track for him
As for what hes beaten, dont we always get this when one horse stands out so strongly from the rest? It was a point i think with the Rock but personally i think beating Araafa and the great Sir percy is pretty nice form myself… Time will tell
correct trackside and so far he’s had nothing of substance put up against of him imhaho
we always get the what has he beaten thing when a very good horse comes our way cant we just enjoy what gw has achieved, the same can be said for many good horse over the years they cant all be champions
Sal
<br> <br>Classic Winner <br>——————————————————————————–<br>I’m not suggesting George is physically soft. I’m saying he has not proved himself to have the resilience and consistency of a true champion.
He’s far from a Giant’s Causeway or Rock of Gibraltar – yet.
I am a fan of giants causeway and to a lesser extent the rock of gibraltar, and i reckon they would both struggle to pass george, he’s far to fast for anything to match him in a battle.
I dont reckon theres any point in arguing how good he is, as I said before the QE2 anyone who doubts him is free to lose their money on such notions. There isnt another 130+ miler in training at the moment let alone one with georges turn of foot. The rest can run the race of their lives and they wont beat him. If he wants to win he’ll win, the breeders cup mile is just another stroll in the park for him.
I agree with trackside that the only thing that will beat george is george. It is crystal clear to me that he is not only the best miler on the planet, but the best miler we’ve seen in some time. I’d like to see if he can beat the yanks at what the yanks do best. Beating them in a turf mile is too easy.
I’m not saying that GW would not beat GC or ROG in a race. I could have used the example of Mill Reef, or Shergar or Brigadier Gerard or even High Chaparral.
I’m saying that these horses consistently demonstrated a level of brilliance, determination, durability and professionalism that elevates true champions above merely a fast racehorse.
George Washington was champion 2 year old and now champion 3 year old colt….not many horses achieve that.
He has won twice at Group 1 level at two and the same again as a 3 year old. Takes an exceptional colt to show such precosity at 2 to win a Phoenix Stakes by 8 lenghts and still be at the top of his games to easily win the QEII against his elders at 3. Never out of the top 3 in his life, at his peak he would eat the likes of Giants Causeway and Rock Of Gibraltar for breakfast.
When George Washington runs next he will have had 10 career starts, ROG and GC had 13. Considering GW missed part of the season through injury his record is pretty good.
The key words there are ‘at his peak’ ‘considering’ and ‘pretty good’.
ROG ran up a sequence of 7 Group ones in a row (unlucky to not make it 8), on ground from soft to good to firm, on the go from April of his 2yo career.
GC won 5 Group ones in the space of less than 3 months.
George Washington is a brilliant horse, but don’t try to tell me that he has shown anything like their resilience and consistency at the highest level.
I think it’s very likely that George would have run in the St. James’ and Sussex had he been fit, and had he been fit, possibly would have run in the Moulin and swerved the Celebration.
Of Giant’s Causeway’s 5 Group 1s, 3 of them came at 10 furlongs.
Rock of Gibraltar’s streak of 7 was continued from his 2yo career. 5 Group 1s came at 3. George ran in 2 of them (both Guineas), and was injured for the other 3.
It’s unfair to say that George is ‘less’ of a horse for not putting together a long streak. Both of George’s Group 1s this year were put up with better performances than any of Giant’s Causeway’s or Rock of Gibraltar’s.
Yes, GC won at a variety of distances – again the sign of a proper champion rather than just a single distance specialist.
‘If’ George had been fit, ‘if’ he was not injured.  But he was.  He picked up an injury in his second race of the season, which was unlucky, but shows he does lack the same very high level of physical toughness.  He was then not ready for his comeback race, again showing a lack of resilience, or versatility.
All these ifs and buts are fine – but all he has proved is that, with everything in his favour, he can occasionally run spectacularly well.  That does not make him a true champion.  He is more Hawk Wing than ROG – which some people might take as a compliment, but I don’t mean it as one.
He is more Hawk Wing than ROG – which some people might take as a compliment, but I don’t mean it as one
Hit the nail on the head there sal which brings the topic round to that of its title.<br>AOB hardly kept his awe and regard for Hawkwing hidden which has since made him reticent about hyping his horses since. However my sense is that he holds GW in similar regard and for the same reasons he sent Hawkwing for the Classic he could send Georgie in that he will have nothing to lose. Unlike Hawkwing though, he has no need to keep him running at 4, in order to boost his stud value.
not sure how sal you can say that just because GW picked up an injury he is not as sound as GC or Roc they were lucky that they did not have any injuries during there season ,what a thing to say AOB stated how bad an injury this was and that GW rested in his box for 6 weeks and had not done any fast work before his return at goodwood, its like any top athlete returning from injury not practising for 2 months and expecting them to win it does not happen
Isn’t a sound horse one that does not pick up injuries easily?  George was not hit by a car or shot with a laser gun – he pulled a muscle badly just in the course of a race.
Maybe I am being harsh, that George has not had a chance to prove he can stand up to a sustained racing programme.  But either way, he has not proven it.
You say he would beat GC or ROG in a race ‘on his day’.  If either of them ran against George for 8 races in a row, I know at the moment I wouldn’t be backing George to even turn up for all of them.
Despite all this, I do think GW is a fantastic horse, and that he is a certainty to romp it if he runs anywhere near form in the Mile.  I’m just not convinced that he is the sort of horse that can string two top-notch performances together in the way that true champions can.  I hope he can prove me wrong.
He did of course win 4 times in a row last year winning over both 6 and 7 furlongs. Then he came out and won his Guineas making it 5 in a row.He then injured himself in bottomless ground at the Curragh yet finished second.
Roly, Hawk Wing was probably sent to the Classic as, unlike ROG, he had both a dirt pedigree and proven form over 10f.  George has neither.
I hear what you’re staying about George’s great record as a two year old – but winning those races is not quite that same as winning international races against all-aged competition.  In addition, it is no better than what ROG achieved.
As for Sir Percy, absolutely.  He may be an above average Derby winner, but he is nothing like a true champion yet either.  Although he has shown great consistency in his races he hasn’t proved to be resilient, and he has not yet even raced against older horses. I’m surprised you’re even considering that.
I think that it is very easy to lose perspective when a very good horse comes along, and to start calling them the greatest miler on the planet, when they still have something to prove.  That’s not to say we shouldn’t appreciate them – George has given some terrific performances and has been one of the highlights of the flat season for me.  But I think he needs another win before we can honestly say he is one of the greats, not just another Hawk Wing.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.