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Far be it from me to explain the perversity of having "might" and "reality" in the same sentence. You would have been far better to have used real examples of horses that actually ran. As I am sure you know all mathematics relies on proof, you made your example fit your theory without having any proof to back it up.
It was a good bluff though
I didn’t want to give an example EF, had I done so it would just degenerate in to a yes (the example) is, no he isn’t debate. By not using names it takes emotion out of the equation/debate, or so I thought.
Value Is EverythingYou cannot make something abstract which essentially can never be anything other than a physical reality. It is only the individual interpretation that differs.
However the ability of any given horse to produce or reproduce its best form can be influenced by among others; distance, going, time of year, time of day, rate of recovery, weight, prevailing weather conditions and the race tactics. If you do not take into account all these factors, then your figures are little more than statistics.I’ve been watching racing since 1967. Frankel has the slickest gear change I’ve ever seen.
Steeple , I am not so sure , do you really think he had better gears that Sir Ivor or Nijinsky ……!!!
if you do fine
But no way does he compare to the mighty Secretariat ….not yet anyway
However he has the wow factor for sure …
Rfc are failing badly by not getting this horse on to the front pages of newspapers …they have a gift and are just not making the most of it …..imo
Ricky
Anyone recognize this little fellow……a clue. IMO The nearest his dad would have got to his mum on or off a racecourse is when he was covering her
[attachment=0:1e13p0vb]aqjhw.jpg[/attachment:1e13p0vb]
Ricky, I’ve always concentrated on UK racing although looking back at Secretariat’s astounding 1973 Belmont Stakes win, he looks so relentless that the others simply cannot keep up and they fall away, some very quickly.
Being an ‘oldie, my default position, like most of my contemporaries is ‘fings ain’t what they used to be’. The champions of your youth tend to gain even more prestige and glory through the long lens of nostalgia.
But from the Guineas, I’ve never been in doubt that Frankel is the best I’ve seen.
When I mention the slickness of his gear change, I bear in mind the acceleration capabilities of those greats you mention, along with the likes of Dancing Brave. But those horses tended to take quite a bit more time than Frankel to reach their top speed. Frankel’s response when given the office, is as close to immediate as you’ll get.
Despite the fact that he will come on a lot for his Lockinge run, when asked by Queally, the race was over within two seconds.
He’ll get 10f easily imo and has every chance of getting 12. I’d love to see him in The Arc.
…So I take it you won’t be watching the Preakness this evening?
Most definately would have had I been still awake! Roll on The Belmont,the Triple Crown and Breeders cup still appeal particularly as a spectacle! It takes a special horse to win the American Triple Crown,and a bloody good one to even contest the 3 races,I wonder why
Dr Fagar
never ran in any of them?
,easy to blame an injury when connections knew he would struggle to get home in all three.I suppose old SeabirdII rates Damascus
an All Time Great too!
…So I take it you won’t be watching the Preakness this evening?
Most definately would have had I been still awake! Roll on The Belmont,the Triple Crown and Breeders cup still appeal particularly as a spectacle! It takes a special horse to win the American Triple Crown,and a bloody good one to even contest the 3 races,I wonder why
Dr Fagar
never ran in any of them?
,easy to blame an injury when connections knew he would struggle to get home in all three.I suppose old SeabirdII rates Damascus
an All Time Great too!
He did have sore knees, so I don’t blame John Nerud for being careful with him.
Damascusis
an all-time great, his 3yo season was incredible although he didn’t have quite the speed of Dr. Fager. He beat Dr. Fager twice (but he needed a pacemaker to do so!), but Dr. Fager also beat him twice. And the doctor was beating older horses while Damascus was sweeping the mid-year 3yo races.
Frankel, for the record, has Canford Cliffs among his scalps (and Nathaniel on his debut) but, when you look at the list of horses he’s beaten it still looks a bit light to me
However – he has dealt with whatever has been put in front of him them in no uncertain terms.I’ll be really interested if they decide to take him on with French Fifteen at some point (given it’s unlikely that Camelot will take him on).
Surprised by that last comment. If Camelot wins the Derby they will be desperate to take Frankel on over 10f I reckon.
Camalot – Derby, Irish Derby, King George, Irish Champion, Arc/St leger. Doubt whether the two will meet.
Value Is EverythingYou are probably right (apart from the King George – Derby winners don’t seem to go there any more), but until its certain i’ll hope Camelot wins the Derby by 5L and the two meet in the Eclipse.
For what its worth, i’d be more confident backing Frankel stepping back than stepping up. I’m aware it’s not going to happen and its only a visual impression on my behalf, but i think he’d win the Nunny on the bit.
PC,
I suspect Coolmore will go to the King George deliberately to miss Frankel (if Cecil’s Star goes to Sandown). Also suspect they’ll go for the St Leger. They know, if Frankel does what we think he’s capable of then Camalot won’t be considered as the "best horse". If he wins the Triple Crown, then (even if the actual form isn’t remarkable) as we’ve seen on these pages… some will regard him as "better" than Frankel for winning the "right races". However, if he runs in the Eclipse or International and gets beaten 4 lengths by Frankel… Then it would be difficult for people to consider Camalot as the "best horse", even if he goes on to win the Triple Crown.That’s looking too far forward, Camalot’s no certainty for the Derby.
Value Is EverythingThey threw every dart they had at Sea The Stars and I expect that if they can meet Frankel over 10f they’ll have a go.
Which would add more to his stud value, winning the IrishDerby/KG/Leger or being the horse that toppled the mighty Frankel? Winning the three aforementioned races will probably be much easier but that’s not their style in recent years. That’s my take anyway.
NB – I purposely left the Arc out because I think they would value winning that just as much.
…So I take it you won’t be watching the Preakness this evening?
Most definately would have had I been still awake! Roll on The Belmont,the Triple Crown and Breeders cup still appeal particularly as a spectacle! It takes a special horse to win the American Triple Crown,and a bloody good one to even contest the 3 races,I wonder why
Dr Fagar
never ran in any of them?
,easy to blame an injury when connections knew he would struggle to get home in all three.I suppose old SeabirdII rates Damascus
an All Time Great too!
Man O’ War never won a Triple Crown, didn’t stop him from being largely considered as America’s greatest ever horse. Your criteria for all-time greatness once again showed up for what it is. Utter bullshit.
…So I take it you won’t be watching the Preakness this evening?
Most definately would have had I been still awake! Roll on The Belmont,the Triple Crown and Breeders cup still appeal particularly as a spectacle! It takes a special horse to win the American Triple Crown,and a bloody good one to even contest the 3 races,I wonder why
Dr Fagar
never ran in any of them?
,easy to blame an injury when connections knew he would struggle to get home in all three.I suppose old SeabirdII rates Damascus
an All Time Great too!
Man O’ War never won a Triple Crown, didn’t stop him from being largely considered as America’s greatest ever horse. Your criteria for all-time greatness once again showed up for what it is. Utter bullshit.
Now you’re talkin Seabird,you got there in the end!
Man o War
is the best horse ever to grace the American Shoreline and is an All Time Great,he would have won the Kentucky Derby had he been entered but at least won both the Preakness and Belmont! Makes your
Dr Fagar
look average when you compare the 2 now though eh? There lies the difference between Great and All Time Great,the quality of the race these horses contest like I’ve said all along,just remember though I was discussing All Time Greats from these shores,you thought you’d try and catch me out and its backfired on you!
Dr Fagar
couldn’t lace
Man O Wars
boots! Try again!
Man O’ War never won a Triple Crown, didn’t stop him from being largely considered as America’s greatest ever horse. Your criteria for all-time greatness once again showed up for what it is. Utter bullshit.
Now you’re talkin Seabird,you got there in the end!
Man o War
is the best horse ever to grace the American Shoreline and is an All Time Great,he would have won the Kentucky Derby had he been entered but at least won both the Preakness and Belmont! Makes your
Dr Fagar
look average when you compare the 2 now though eh? There lies the difference between Great and All Time Great,the quality of the race these horses contest like I’ve said all along,just remember though I was discussing All Time Greats from these shores,you thought you’d try and catch me out and its backfired on you!
Dr Fagar
couldn’t lace
Man O Wars
boots! Try again!
So, you do admit that Man O’ War is an all-time great then. But, I thought…
Are you serious? To be an all time Great in the USA you have to be a triple crown winner.
..yet Man O’ war never won a triple crown. Gonna teach you to pick stupid restrictive criteria. Btw, you still haven’t replied to my question about why Dr Fager is considered by the american public as far superior to the likes of Gallant Fox, Omaha and Assault, all triple crown winners. I could just as easily substitute Dr Fager for other all-time greats that did not have to win the triple crown like Kelso, Forego, Spectacular Bid, Native Dancer etc.. in this argument, and it would still hold. And, he says it’s backfired on me? Delusion at its best!
Man O’ War never won a Triple Crown, didn’t stop him from being largely considered as America’s greatest ever horse. Your criteria for all-time greatness once again showed up for what it is. Utter bullshit.
Now you’re talkin Seabird,you got there in the end!
Man o War
is the best horse ever to grace the American Shoreline and is an All Time Great,he would have won the Kentucky Derby had he been entered but at least won both the Preakness and Belmont! Makes your
Dr Fagar
look average when you compare the 2 now though eh? There lies the difference between Great and All Time Great,the quality of the race these horses contest like I’ve said all along,just remember though I was discussing All Time Greats from these shores,you thought you’d try and catch me out and its backfired on you!
Dr Fagar
couldn’t lace
Man O Wars
boots! Try again!
So, you do admit that Man O’ War is an all-time great then. But, I thought…
Are you serious? To be an all time Great in the USA you have to be a triple crown winner.
..yet Man O’ war never won a triple crown. Gonna teach you to pick stupid restrictive criteria.
I shall deliver the ‘Coup de Grace’ quickly!
Sir Barton
won the inaugeral Triple Crown back in 1919,like I said
Man O War
didn’t get an entry for the 1920 Kentucky Derby but went on to win both the other 2 legs,incidentally he could have given ‘Sir Barton’ a 10 length headstart and still beaten him at Belmont,the pair eventually clashed and ‘Man O War’ slaughtered him a bit like I’m doing to you,Its called Collateral form Seabird so dont think for one minute I dont know just what a different league ‘Man O War’ was in compared to ‘Dr Fagar’ and you call both ‘All time Greats’ Get Real! My blade is sheathed!
Goodnight!
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