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Fighting Fifth 2025

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  • #1746383
    Avatar photoCork All Star
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    Henderson still has a few decent horses. Sir Gino is a potential star. Jango Baie looks like he has taken a step forward. And maybe it is too soon to write off Jonbon.

    However, I get the impression McManus is having most of his best horses trained in Ireland now (with plot jobs entrusted to Cromwell). Mullins seems to get most of the Donnelly’s best horses. Buckley has had some good horses but he has never had the quantity.

    It does feel as if there is a changing of the guard in the British training ranks. Henderson and Nicholls seem in decline. Skelton is the most successful British trainer now, at least in terms of prize money.

    The likes of Pauling and Snowden (both Henderson proteges) seem to be getting more good horses as well. Might some of their horses have gone to Henderson in the past?

    #1746384
    Avatar photoHe Didnt Like Ground
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    Derham and Murphy are chapping at the door to , he may well have one of two talented horses but he’s got more average now , he’s lost his bottle , if he trained Panic Attack would she have ran so quickly again in the coral ….nope

    #1746385
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    Agree he has lost his nerve. That happened a while ago, after he gave into pressure and stepped up Altior in distance and he got beaten.

    All the faffing around with Constitution Hill and wrapping him up in cotton wool wasn’t really worth it in the end. Perhaps it even contributed to the horse going wrong in early 2024?

    #1746386
    moehat
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    A few stables seem to be rejuvenated when they share training duties, the most noticeable one being Phillip Hobbs. Maybe Nicky needs to think about that? I hadn’t realised CH had never been beaten right handed. Look how badly Dessie used to perform left handed. I can’t see how he can recover from the falls he has had; it must have affected him mentally if he’s an intelligent horse. I remember a horse at the riding stables my daughter used to go to broke his hip going through a gate. Although Humphrey recovered they could never again get him to go through a gate when ridden. I also hadn’t realised that his owner also owned Mutare who is probably the first racing fatality that I remember.

    #1746387
    LD73
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    I don’t disagree up to a point but he has finished 4th in the last two trainers championships earning around £2.2m in prize money both years with 76 and 91 winners (which is a 19% and 21% strike rate respectively) so that hardly spells a trainer who’s time is ‘nearly up’. His strike rate over the last 14 days is 33% (10 winns from 30 runners).

    Yes Skelton has superceeded both him and Nicholls in the last couple of years but that doesn’t mean that they are not both fully capable of turning that around as there are always peaks and troughs with regards to the top class horses that each trainer gets to go to war with.

    Is he more on the back foot at the moment……..well yes but equally with horses like Sir Gino (assuming he is none the worse for his issues), Lulamba, Impose Toi, Jango Baie and Jonbon etc that could quickly be turned on its head.

    #1746388
    Avatar photoEx RubyLight
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    Buckley has had some good horses but he has never had the quantity.

    Can you name his last really decent chaser? I can’t, but I’m getting old. He’s not the owner to send them chasing at any price, he really cares for them. Maybe when the CH adventure is over, so will his involvement in Horse Racing.

    JP finally understands that buying 3yo olds from Magnier brings him nowhere. He changed his policy some years ago, maybe after losing Sir Eric at Cheltenham, and has quite a few decent 2m4f to 3m2f types, to say the least.

    Jonbon is running at his “home track” on Saturday. I think 4/1 is worth thinking about.

    #1746390
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    “Can you name his last really decent chaser?”

    Finian’s Rainbow?

    #1746391
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    Thanks CAS. Won the 2012 QM….

    #1746392
    Avatar photoHe Didnt Like Ground
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    4th considering where he was is a fall , say the hill is finished and Sir Gino doesn’t come back as good then he’s got very little talent left

    #1746393
    Avatar photoEx RubyLight
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    Paddy Flood has a quite interesting opinion on CH and Nico’s style of riding him.

    Starts at about 2:10 mins

    #1746394
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    I’ glad someone finally has the balls to criticize Nico. It was just about time.
    Get him a new jockey and give him time to find his confidence back.

    #1746398
    moehat
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    But he didn’t run his race when James rode him albeit not falling. If I had a son or partner that was a jockey there’s no way that I’d want him riding the horse.

    #1746399
    Avatar photoHe Didnt Like Ground
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    What the excuse for Punchestown when Bowen ride him …

    #1746402
    Avatar photoEx RubyLight
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    The excuse for Punchestown could have been travel, also two previous falls, not enough time to recover from them and so on…

    #1746407
    Avatar photoyeats
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    As the Irish lads said Nico’s only riding good horses like CH because he’s the stable jockey not because of his ability and talent. There have been many better jockeys over the years, he’s pretty average for me.
    People forget how poor Nico looked at Aintree. I can’t see how anyone could have any confidence if Nico rides him again. Get a better jockey on (Harry Cobden) and see what happens.

    #1746410
    Avatar photoHe Didnt Like Ground
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    Jesus what’s the love in for Cobden , he’s hardly Ruby , all I’ve heard since Sat is excuses , it’s the horse guys he’s lost his nerve , you can say what every you want he’s done

    #1746412
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    Agree HDLG. I am not De Boinville’s greatest admirer (and I agree with Yeats that he gave Constitution Hill a poor ride at Aintree) but I really don’t see what difference Harry Cobden is going to make. He is a decent jockey but he is not a miracle worker!

    I know falls are part and parcel of a jumps jockey’s life. But why would anyone want to risk their neck getting on this horse’s back now?

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