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paulostermeye
r
The list of horses reference the Old Bailey Trial were:
30/12/02 Lingfield, Legal Set, Darren Williams, 3/14, 4-1
18/2/03 Southwell, CD Europe, Fergal Lynch, 8/10, 16-1
24/3/03 Newcastle, Chispa, Darren Williams, 3/14, 7-1
10/5/03 Thirsk, South Atlantic, Fergal Lynch, 2/18, 2-1f
2/3/04 Lingfield, Ballinger Ridge, Kieren Fallon, 2/10, 15-8
15/5/04 Newbury, Russian Rhythm, Kieren Fallon, 1/15, 3-1f
14/6/04 Warwick, Levitator, Kieren Fallon 2/5, 13-2
20/6/04 Pontefract, Krynica, Kieren Fallon, 1/10, 11-2
25/6/04 Southwell, Romil Star, Darren Williams, 2/9, 5-1
30/6/04 Lingfield, Bubbling Fun, Kieren Fallon, 3/11, 4-1
30/6/04 Yarmouth, Wares Home, Darren Williams, 3/11, 5-1
8/7/04 Epsom, Bonecrusher, Kieren Fallon, 5/6, 4-1
10/7/04 York, Right Answer, Kieren Fallon, 2/10, 5-1
15/7/04 Doncaster, Favour, Kieren Fallon, 7/11, 13-2
16/7/04 Carlisle, Kristikhab, Fergal Lynch, 7/10, 9-2
19/7/04 Ayr, Doctor Hilary, Kieren Fallon, 2/8, 7-2j
23/7/04 Newmarket, Daring Aim, Kieren Fallon, 1/7, 3-1
6/8/04 Newmarket, Dubai Venture, Kieren Fallon, 6/14, 8-1
13/8/04 Newbury, Lost Soldier Three, Kieren Fallon, 2/8, 9-2
14/8/04 Goodwood, Goodwood Spirit, Kieren Fallon, 3/9, 2-1f
14/8/04 Goodwood, Rangoon, Kieren Fallon, 2/5, 2-1
16/8/04 Yarmouth, Dial Square, Kieren Fallon, 0/20, 10-1
23/8/04 Windsor, Barking Mad, Kieren Fallon, 1/11, 9-2
24/8/04 Yarmouth, Beauvrai, Kieren Fallon, 1/5, 4-6f
31/8/04 Ripon, Bond Babe, Fergal Lynch, 3/1, 9-2
31/8/04 Ripon, Familiar Affair, Fergal Lynch, 1/7, 9-1
31/8/04 Ripon, Bond City, Fergal Lynch, 2/8, 9-2Sorry for any confusion but I was linking the fact that Bond City was the horse mentioned at the Old Bailey trial, not Bonjour Bond.
This would presumably mean he lied under oath about that particular horse and was acquitted incorrectly as it transpired he did stop the horse from winning.
I wondered if there would be any redress particularly as we now have a Gambling Act. Perhaps wit could help..Hopefully, there maybe a case for the police to follow up on here if he has admitted telling pokies in court – it’s our only hope of any justice.
Presumably you will be making a complaint to the police in that case?
Yes, I’ve just contacted the City of Westminster Police and made a complaint which I’ve requested they investigate.
Some of the postings in this and the Nicky Henderson thread illustrate the problems the BHA face and show, whatever they do, they just cannot win.
On the one hand we have posters questioning the "independence" of the disciplinary panels suggesting that because they are paid for by the BHA they must be at the BHA’s beck and call and cannot be independent.
Yet when the panel does take an independent stance and goes against the BHA’s recommendations, they also face criticism.
I have asked this question before but none of the critics of the BHA have come up with a response – what is the best way to address these disciplinary issues? Bearing in mind the process has to be fair to the accused – a kangaroo "hang ’em out to dry" court is not a viable option.
Lest I am accused of flying the flag for the BHA, I am not – it is a far from perfect organisation. However I have also been around this sport long enough to recognise it is a hell of a lot better than what has been in place previously.
- Total Posts 17716
Paul, when
the accused
– now referred to as
the convicted
– utters the words ‘I did it, I pulled Buggerallchance Bond’, how many options should any discplinary committee need?
One. And whilst I’d be tempted to make that one option a firing squad, common sense tells me that ‘feck off and don’t come back’ would likely be more suitable.
The BHA are often criticised, and with good reason, and in this instance there is no hiding place for them. Many of the problems they face are borne of insufficiently detailed rules and regulations, leaving their application open to debate and error. That doesn’t apply in this case, with the simple facts being that a proven cheat has been allowed to a) feel no financial impact, given that he would have benefitted from pulling the horses in the first place and was compensated by the BHA whilst under investigation, and b) carry on riding, albeit in a different country.
There’s no ‘this way or that way’ in this instance, Paul, so the ‘if you can’t offer a solution, you can’t comment on the problem’ line is nothing more than another smokescreen.
Paul, when
the accused
– now referred to as
the convicted
– utters the words ‘I did it, I pulled Buggerallchance Bond’, how many options should any discplinary committee need?
One. And whilst I’d be tempted to make that one option a firing squad, common sense tells me that ‘feck off and don’t come back’ would likely be more suitable.
Establishing guilt or otherwise is only part of the process – they also have to give a punishment – which has to be justified.
It is all well and good saying ban them for life – but it is not that simple.
Whether we like it or not we have so called "human rights" legislation. If a jockey / trainer is denied the right to work you can guarentee he/she would challenge the decision in the courts?
Think it won’t happen – I offer you one D McKeown – who is taking his four year ban to the courts.
That is presumably why the BHA ensure the panels are headed by a QC.
The BHA are often criticised, and with good reason, and in this instance there is no hiding place for them. Many of the problems they face are borne of insufficiently detailed rules and regulations, leaving their application open to debate and error.
No different to laws in "real life" – we don’t live in a perfect world
That doesn’t apply in this case, with the simple facts being that a proven cheat has been allowed to a) feel no financial impact, given that he would have benefitted from pulling the horses in the first place and was compensated by the BHA whilst under investigation, and b) carry on riding, albeit in a different country.
It could be argued it is a pragmatic response. Lynch has effectively been banned from UK racing for 2 1/2 years (his initial ban plus the 12 month voluntary ban). The fact he can ply his trade elsewhere is not really the concern of the BHA. Personally as long his is out of British racing that is fine by me – if the US authorities want to grant him a licence that speaks a great deal about their standards. In taking the option the BHA have avoided the prospect, costs and continued bad publicity that would have come about had the case gone to the courts for appeal.
Paul, only a fool would not tread lightly when judging if to deny a man his living. So, claims that Lynch should be warned off rightly need to be considered judgments. However, when a jockey is found guilty or admits to:
Stopping horses
Passing on Inside Information
Betting
Mixing with Warned-Off charactersI think most right-minded people that care about this game would conclude it is, however regrettable because this young man is a talented jockey, the only option.
To pick up on a couple points:
# Leniency should be shown due to Lynch admitting the offences
This is a fair principle of natural justice. However, when asked by the BBC Lynch lied. When asked by the BHA Lynch lied. When asked by the police Lynch lied. When asked by the Courts Lynch lied. When asked again by the BHA Lynch lied. And I think it is fair to say it was only when he knew his fate had been sealed that he decided to tell the truth only out of self-interest to save his own neck – hardly the actions of a man due any leniency.
# His 18 months suspension while awaiting his court appearance should be view as a ban
This view could be argued if it where unique to the BHA. However, to be suspended from the workplace while serious allegations made against you are investigated is a common practice in the British workplace. Also, during this period Lynch was compensated for his loss of income to the tune of £90,000 according to the Racing Post an action that would not have result had this been a ban.
# An Appeal Court would overule any decision made by the BHA based on Human Rights
If this is truely the case then the game is up for all of us. The BHA might as well post up on their Website do what you want – jocks, trainers – there’s nothing we can do about it.
Imv on the balance on probability Lynch has clearly been a foolish young man and probably does deserve a second chance but the way the BHA has gone about is just not right. To not ban someone for what he has admitted to doing makes the game a laughstock as well that nice man from the BHA that comes on here knows – at least he has been cute enough to keep a low profile around these parts.
Pete this may well surprise you but I am not going to disagree with anything you have just said.
What I have been trying to point out in my arguments is the difficult position the BHA (and indeed all sports authorities) find themselves in when it comes to disciplinary issues.
It isn’t just racing – we have seen the same in athletics – the cheats will and do turn to the courts – the disadvantage of living in an increasingly litigatious society.
Like most people my gut reaction was to ban them for life but then realised it could not happen. It may not be ideal but what has been handed down is probably the “least worse” option – we may not like it but life sucks anyway.
- Total Posts 17716
How well did Dwayne Chambers, a proven cheat, do in court?
I don’t understand this "human rights" argument.
What are the "human rights" for someone placing a bet on a product that’s fixed to lose, be it at the casino or on a horse race?As for going to court to try and get a ban lifted, if a jockey has already lied under oath about this event, what would the chance be of lifting a ban made by the BHA over exactly the same event?
He has already done his time Wow!.What happens if found innocent like Kieran Fallon? What happens to the time done ? Can it be used to payoff later disqualifications or suspensions?
The interview of the BHA on TV on this matter was unbelievable, pathetic.
The BHA is like a ship floating on the high seas after the crew have gone overboard.
So This is the Guy who is tearing up Phill Park–I Never heard a peep of this—-I am going to repost this at the top US Forum Pace Advantage–
I am sick over this-
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