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Quote: from clivex on 3:29 pm on July 3, 2006[br]It wouldnt matter if not one punter had spotted it. If he threw a race, then thats it as far as i concerned :angry: <br>
The thing is of course that every single jockey has sat on non triers. Its part of the game, especially in National hunt racing to get a horse handicapped. Take a look at any 23 runner field in a 2 mile Irish maiden hurdle and I can assure you , only a handful are trying. Of course, this is not the same as deliberatly duping people out of money.
SHL
Quote: from sberry on 10:08 pm on July 3, 2006[br]excuse me but if found guilty nothing more than lifetime exclsuion would be appropriate.
regardless of anybody’s greatness or achievements such a crime (yes its is a crime, not just in itself as fraud but greater than that because of the people it’s done against, ie, those that pay the wages, employ, etc.) should be dealt with by total exclusion.
if i could be bothered i’d drag up my previous (maybe slightly biased) rants about no smoke without fire and how many times do you need to see smoke before realising something is alight.
but i won’t, one just hopes justice will be done correctly whatever the result.
ballinger ridge<br>
Whats this got to do with Paul Carberry :)
SHL
Clivex, not a good example. People dont need to drink and drive. Try racing an average enough horse off his merits from day one and see how long you stay in business.
SHL
Quote: from SirHarryLewis on 2:28 pm on July 4, 2006[br]<br>The thing is of course that every single jockey has sat on non triers.  Its part of the game, especially in National hunt racing to get a horse handicapped.  Take a look at any 23 runner field in a 2 mile Irish maiden hurdle and I can assure you , only a handful are trying.  Of course, this is not the same as deliberatly duping people out of money.<br>
Running an unfit horse, or a horse that will prove ideally suited by different conditions is a world away from defrauding people of their money. I really am shocked that you cannot see the difference.
Quote: from SirHarryLewis on 3:36 pm on July 4, 2006[br]Clivex, not a good example.  People dont need to drink and drive.  Try racing an average enough horse off his merits from day one and see how long you stay in business.<br>
And that is hardly justification for defrauding other persons is it. If you cannot make money trainbing horses, then ****
off and work at Tesco’s.YOur perhaps missing my point.  It actually has nothing to do with making money DJ.  And its also not particularly underhanded since everyone at the race meeting actually knows that the newcomer or horse waiting to be handicapped isnt going to be trying and there is insignifcant bets on this animal.  Like I said it has nothing to do with gambling… but if you have a very ordinary horse and you run him up third or fourth lets say in a novice hurdle at Tipperary, then you may as well take him out the back and shoot him rather then bothering running him a handicap.  One look at a handicap can reveal the nature of the problem when a horse carrying 11 stone 2 may never have won a race where a horse carrying several pounds less may have won many.  So you see DJ, nobody is actually going to give you a horse to train if your approach is that a horse should always run off his merits.
Now of course,  I dont think the problem is as huge in England cause there is a lot more races for those type of horses. Overproduction has also contributed to this.  In my view, a horse should actually be allowed to win several races before being handicapped at all….it would be one way of challenging a system which I hate.
On another subject…AOB and several other trainers when preparing a horse for a major race like the Derby are actually runing in races and often getting beaten because they are being primed for bigger things.  Is this also not someway morally wrong.  What about all the money that was lost on the ballydoyle early season runners???  Something to think about.
Anyhow, this is not ment as a defence of Kieran Fallon because conspiracy to deprive others of their money should certainly not be allowed.  My point is that all jockeys are regualarly sitting on horses that are not really trying to the best of their ability.  Thats just a fact. ÂÂÂ
Now….must get back to work.  Clean up on Isle 3
(Edited by SirHarryLewis at 5:24 pm on July 4, 2006)<br>
(Edited by SirHarryLewis at 5:58 pm on July 4, 2006)
SHL
See last post…. OH by the way. I dont believe I condoned it. Having held a trainers licence and having no interest in betting on Irish racing, Im not pleased. But the handicap system needs changing…over here anyway.
SHL
Quote: from clivex on 5:25 pm on July 4, 2006[brClivex, not a good example.  People dont need to drink and drive.  Try racing an average enough horse off his merits from day one and see how long you stay in business[/i
This is a terrible post..almost excusing corruption
No wonder people sneer at the sport. if we are just going to tolerate deceit then in time the sport will seize up. there are plenty of other betting outlets available and a further continuing drift from racing could be catastrophic
You can do better than that SHL :o
Clivex,
You could always start betting on Serie A football…. Seriously SHL has a point, running an unfit horse and people having a punt on a horse is the same thing…. Its as fraudulant as pulling a horse up IMO….
JohnJ.
PS –  Anyone who bets on these low class races as way of making profit is a complete mug….
Seems that they are pretty confident thsi time…
After past fiascos you would expect taht they would be cautious. clearly plod has had a word
Its the knavesmire for Fallon now :o :o
Quote: from clivex on 4:29 pm on July 7, 2006[br]Seems that they are pretty confident thsi time…
After past fiascos you would expect taht they would be cautious. clearly plod has had a word
Its the knavesmire for Fallon now :o :o
Time will tell regarding the strength or otherwise of the prosecution case.<br>In the past the local plod have investigated and displayed a woeful lack of knowledge of racing and betting in consequence of which the cases have failed.<br>In this case City of London police have secured the evidence and they are theoretically expert in investigating City fraud. They also have access to betting patterns and phone records. The CPS have independently reviewed the case and feel that there is sufficiency to prosecute. <br>
(Edited by Lingfield at 4:40 pm on July 7, 2006)
So many posts were about what should be done to Fallon if he is guilty. My question is what should be done if he is found to be innocent?The first release said that to allow them to ride would somehow create ( in the public’s mind) the impression that races were still "fixed"while they were still riding.<br>This seems to imply that they are all guilty. Does such a statement not prejudice their right to a fair trial?
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