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Maybe we should have a market on whether any of the jockeys will be found guilty. I would back odds-on at least one of them being convicted. Previous failed investigations can be discarded when considering the prospects for the current COLP based charges.
There is yet another investigation coming to an end and more charges will be brought based on work by the HRA in-house staff. A lot of lessons have been learnt from the failures headed up by Roger Buffham during this time as head of security at the JC.
I sincerely hope Fallon and his fellow jockeys are convicted, serve time and are warned off for life. Racing will be a winner if this happens and there is a real chance the crooks and cheats currently operating will consider playing straight.<br>
Wallace,
Wit has already told us the Police are running 6/4 against a conviction in the last 1000 cases of conspiracy to defraud.
Oddswise , if my maths is right, it is 0.6 x 0.6 x 0.6 = 0.216 0r 4/1 against all 3 being innocent so you are quite right to back a little odds on that at least one is found guilty.
On the other hand it is 0.4 x 0.4 x0.4 = 0.064 against all 3 being convicted ie araound 15/1 against.
What the true odds are in this case is anyones guess since none of us know.
Galejade, old form dose not really apply here as I know the COLP are much better at this kind of work than previous Met and internal attempts. Don’t think Betfair will put a market up for us.
Quote: from clivex on 12:54 pm on Sep. 13, 2006[br]Yes Luke
I expect you have read the "40000 pages of evidence" and come to your own conclusions havent you?
Presumably there was a considerable amount of evidence against Brooks and Osborne.
If the police are going to focus on the Balinger Ridge race as a key part of their investigations, then Fallon has nothing to worry about. Whatever he may, or may not, have done in other races, that ride was 100% cock-up, not conspiracy.
What worries me is that the likely court case is not going to prove anything one way or the other, and will just be a mess. The police seem to be utterly clueless, no wonder the crime clear-up rate in this country is so appalling.
Betlarge, this "friend" of yours wouldn’t be your good self would it? Can’t believe you had a pony on after asking me to take ten grand out of it for you :biggrin:
I keep telling you but you won’t have it.
This has NOTHING to do with Fallon or corruption in racing or protecting punters. It is about New Labour watching how much black money there is in the economy. So they can get their hands on money they do not understand can exist outside their clutches. EVERY bank and shop has to report every transaction over a grand they regard as suspicious.
I had to go into my bank and explain why I have business transactions in the Czech republic. I felt like telling them to F.O and mind their own business but I have a feeling that if I had I would have had the filth busting down my door looking for drugs and hookers but pretnding they were looking for semtex.
we have a little syndicate in the czech republic but the training fees get paid out of my account. All transactions are recorded and I have never screwed a penny out of the revenue.
We are all suspects in racing. Wait and see, there will be a maximum bet shortly, and it will all be put down to making something stick on Fallon et al and all the evidence coppers find of untoward transactions from money that appears not to have been earned.
How do I know this? Hah hah…that would be telling…..
Meanwhile Labour mps and their supporters at top level are getting away with all sorts of dodges.
The eventual idea is to do away with cash altogether; so all transactions are monitored by banks , credit agencies and the state.
(Edited by GreenGreenDesert at 3:22 am on Sep. 14, 2006)
Mounty
I thought that ten grand was just Chompy laundering another week’s ‘wages’…:biggrin:
Mike
I agree about new labour and control, the security agencies can now seize anything in excess of 1000 from you and you have to go to the magistrates court (legal aid not available for this) to prove its legitimacy so it can be reurned to you. When this law came in a few years ago the limit was K10000 ( when Stoute had his seized at Gatwick) then new labour reduced it to £5000 maybe 2 years ago and in the last few months the control freaks have it as £1,000.<br>We are almost in a police state
"EVERY bank and shop has to report every transaction over a grand they regard as suspicious. "
I’d be interested to know where you get this from? As in my line of work this certainly isn’t the case. Reporting suspicious transactions is risk based and company strategy dependent in relation to Money Laundering. The limit for cash payments over bank counters is 8000 euros or around £5k and this report is usually only to the money laundering reporting officer within the branch/company.. They then choose to report it or not. What your suggesting would imply that I could walk into a building traders and buy £2000 worth of materials pay cash and they would have to report me? High value dealers are obliged to report on these things, strangely orgainsations such as Betfair are not, although they obviously endeavour to do so for the sake of PR.
Also in terms of seizing money, this relates to the proceeds of crime act and they would have to have reasonable suspicion I believe (not really my field, the chap called Wit on here will probably be able to clarify) to seize the money, but they do have the power to do that. What they do with it is another matter and one which we hear little about so I wouldn’t refute conspiracy theories there…
GGD what policy would you support? Anarchy?
dubious stories such as this only feed fuel to those who have decided with no knowledge of the evidence gathered – including financial, communications, witnesses, surveillance, etc – that they are innocent.
what is not disputed is that this is not the first time allegations such as this have been laid at this door and enough evidence is available for a licence to ride being withdrawn – employers have the right to suspend workers before cases come to court, if they think the charges and what is known merit this
even if the courts fail to reach a verdict of guilt, action can still be taken if employers (HRA) believe on the balance of probabilities offences were committed – so what makes anyone think they will get their licence back or get compensation ? (this happens in normal employment too)
it strikes me that silly little stories such as this and hypothetical arguments surrounding horses winning or losing are being used more by those firmly in the ‘he’s innocent’ camp to support their arguments
my money is on the probability that evidence will be vastly more substantial than these people suspect or hope for, when it all comes to court<br>
Aragorn the authorities retain the seized monies unless you can persuade the Magistrates that your cash is clean. £500 + Vat would not be unreasonable legal fees for a solicitor to act in one hearing in the Magistrates. It could go to a few hearings so all your seized cash could end up going in legal fees.<br>Yes the police must have grounds for suspicion, I suppose wearing a hood would be enough grounds nowadays
Aragorn<br>Don’y yake my word for it…ask your bank. I am a retailer and we get garbage from the government and finacial institutions through the mail all the time asking us to report suspicious transactions in cash…and not just over a Grand. Some of these are quite intimidating.<br>I throw them in the bin. Howver the fuctionairres, in banks etc…will follow this to the letter, and suspect everyone they jealously watch with wads of cash.
Now nobody wants to launder money, but I for one am certainly not trained to decide. It is like 1984 or Nazi Germany if we have to watch people like this.
The result is that we have seen very very little cash this year in our business. Less than 5%. It was never much anyway as most people at the races do not carry wads of cash contrary to beleif. If I go I draw £100 and use £30 for betting and if I do not win I go hime with nothing left. I think that is the majority. So if I was to buy a bottle of champagne, a picture or a pair of binocs or a hat…I would use my card.<br>Fear of pickpockets is one reason.
But the governmet imagine that racing is full of criminals laundering millions of pounds of black money every week. I even caught the Police filming people one day.
When I asked why, they said in case there was any trouble they had pics of troublemakers. What utter crap…and I told them so. Then they looked at each other and came clean….filming suspects that may be laundering money for terrorist purposes. At the races????? Taxmen with truncheons.
BUT the government believes Racing is being used for money laundering. From drugs and prostitution. But they allege terrorist links which is absurd beyond belief.
What …if you question that you are an anarchist?
That just goes to show what a dangerous state we live in when dissent is seen as anarchist rumblings.
Blair and his ilk have indeed created a state where everything we do is watched, and we live under fear that all this is necessary because of terrorism.
When they lock all the terrorists in the AR movement up I will think they are sincere in this. They have alowed convicted animal rights bombers and terrorists here to speak , and raise money openly.
Back to racing. The evidence gathering in this will see the state’s tentacles reach deep into betting transactions and justify them looking at peoples computer and mobile phone records. That is what it is about.
In the meantime I suggest you have proof of any cash you carry at all times was earned or drawn from your bank legitimately. ÂÂÂ
Big Blair is watching you.
(Edited by GreenGreenDesert at 2:29 pm on Sep. 14, 2006)
Bloody hell :o
I think we are putting two and two togther here and making eleven frankly
my money is on the probability that evidence will be vastly more substantial than these people suspect or hope for, when it all comes to court
Im with you there…
I think one magistrate, judge or whatever has made it clear that whats in the public domain here is a fraction of what we can expect to see
(no doubt we will be branded Fallon haters now SB… :) )
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