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"For all their fashionable status in certain sections of society, Class A drugs rightly do not play well with the public." – Another factual inaccuracy if your referring to Ireland. Unfortunately here cocaine use is fashionable in EVERY village, town and city in Ireland, its fashionable within EVERY section of society. You think people here link the emotion of the HEROIN horrors of the 90’s and the death of Veronica Guerin to how they feel about Kieren Fallon?! Mr. Down you are on a different planet.
"EVERY village" , "EVERY section of society" – what qualifies you to speak on behalf of everyone in Ireland? Or are you just using hyperbole to try and justify your spurious argument?
Think about how you’d feel if your employer in your chosen profession had prevented you practising that profession for 18 months
Fallon is licensed in Ireland and the Irish authorities chose not to suspend his license. In the eyes of the UK authorities Fallon is a foreign rider.He was able to practice his profession in Ireland where he was licensed and also in France – apart from, of course. the time he was banned under drugs regulations.
Good post CR .. I think people who don’t really do anything are on a sticky wicket when it comes to critising those that do. I tend to regard people like Down the same as I would a book critic. His is only an opinion, no more or less important than mine, or the little old ladies waiting for the bus at the end of the road. If he doesn’t have anything nice to say, he should really just keep his trap shut.
Mikkey, the drugs/drink thing is a joke. I don’t do either but I’ve had a go at both in the past. If you drink a lot, you are a druggie, its the exact same thing, unusually I find myself agreeing with NV.
Fair enough DJ,
My passions got the better of me last night/early this morning and I apologise if I went to far. I never shut up when I spout off – apologies.
I’m just fascinated that the message I seem to be getting is people seem to be saying it’s ok to turn to cocaine if you’re having a few problems.
Like I’ve said earlier, I’m not saying drugs in general is a better or worse option than alcohol, people seem to be missing my point.
My point is that surely admitting your problem, seeking help and having a few beers in your own home to numb the pain is a far better option than keeping problems to yourself and turn to cocaine as an escape.
To label someone who has been banned from racing for cociane use a ‘hero’ and ‘always welcome’, when there is a strong possibility that he could be found guilty of the same offence, is not my cup of tea I’m afraid.
If anyone admits to having a drink/drug problem, or any addiction for that matter, and wants to get help, then I have a lot of respect for them and I would always give my support
Anyway, I won’t say anymore on the subject, and again, apologies if I went overboard.
Mike
I don’t think you went overboard Mikky – you just gave your opinion and sparked some debate – nowt wrong with that.
I have never said it is a good idea or ok to turn to either drink or drugs in order to self-medicate for emotional issues, just that there is really no difference between the two. This stemmed from your initial post which did suggest precisely that.
I also don’t want my kids to grow up as drug abusers, and for me this includes not wanting them to be alcoholics. A problem drinker can be just as dangerous or damaging as a problem user of other drugs.
Cocaine, whilst undoubtedly addictive to some, is not necessarily a drug I would associate with escapism or mental anaesthetic – alcohol, heroin, tranquilizers and even freebase (crack) cocaine are much more likely to serve that purpose for people, given either their longer-lasting effects, or higher initial impact.
Also, if someone was so addicted that they were using cocaine all day, every day, this would presumably result in a lot more failed tests (especially given the length of time detectable traces can remain). The inference has to be that occasional failed tests are more likely to be associated with sporadic, ‘recreational’ use.
I agree that this thread is more an attack on Down than a defense of Fallon.
However, I think that attack is perfectly justified.
Before he attacks Fallon, Alistair Down should show a bit more self-awareness and also remember that, in all the years he was under the influence, the racing world could have taken his job away and forced him to conquer his demons (and re-build his life) on his own.
Steve
NV,
Simple question. Would you like any of your immediate family to come home and say, "I’ve had 8 cans in the bedroom, slept it off and did nobody harm" or "I’ve took cocaine, rode a horse, and got caught".
I’m not out to make enemies here. But please realise I’m not saying taking drugs or taking alcohol is any better or worse than the other. What I am saying is that drinking 8 cans in the comfort of your own bedroom, and sleeping it off, is a far better proporsition than snorting cocaine and riding horses within the next few days.
Mike
Mick, I have a decent career, a brand new car, a new house i’ve just bought, no debts (Bar the mortgage) and a great set of family and friends… And I do both (I don;t ride horses granted).. Quite honestly if I drunk 8 pints I would feel much much worse the next morning than If I did cocaine.. Moreover Cocaine is not addictive, crack is addictive and the primary reason cocaine is a class A drug is because you can turn it into crack… I wouldn;t advise anyone to do it but then you only have to walk into a pub at 5.30 view the halfwits perched at the bar to work out that the lifestyle of a drinker is hardly any different…
This post will probably be removed but it gets my goat when people persecute others on a subject they don’t really understand and does not make that much of a difference to people’s lives.. The government only ever give you the bad news.,.
Moreover Cocaine is not addictive,
Bo**ocks – if that is what you believe then you are deluding yourself.
crack is addictive and the primary reason cocaine is a class A drug is because you can turn it into crack…
Yes crack is highly addictive, the rest though is, again, total bo**ocks – crack is a cocaine derivative which was not invented until the 1980’s. Cocaine was a Class A drug long before cracks invention.
it gets my goat when people persecute others on a subject they don’t really understand and does not make that much of a difference to people’s lives..
How many seriously addicted drug user have you seen? Have you ever had to tell parents their child has died as a result of drug abuse? Have you ever seen the squallor of a drug den? Or are you making your comments from the delusional position of an occasional drug user who thinks "it won’t happen to me"?
Cocaine is not metabolically addictive.
I didn’t say it was – cocaine is neuropsychologically addictive.
There is more than one type of addiction.
Aragorn wrote “This post will probably be removed but it gets my goat when people persecute others on a subject they don’t really understand and does not make that much of a difference to people’s lives”
Thanks for your post, a lot of which makes sense and I understand what you mean. I’ve already apologised for going overboard, however, I must take issue with your above statement.
If you really believe that taking cocaine/drugs “does not make that much of a difference to people’s lives”, then I’m sorry, I honestly can’t agree with that, or perhaps you just meant the subject of drugs, but still I disagree.
I think everyone on this forum will know at least one mother/father who’s son or daughter has had their lives turned upside down because of cocaine – or any drug for that matter.
I urge you to knock on these parents doors and repeat what you have said in this post.
You’re right, the subject might be something we don’t really understand, but I can honestly say that it does make a difference to people’s lives.
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree if you feel differently.
Mike
People have flaws, they make mistakes and have weaknesses and at a human level we ought to understand that. It should be entirely possible to accept and understand that (as we would perhaps if a relative became an addict) without saying that its all okay and no consequences should flow from it.
One aspect of cocaine use that hasn’t been touched upon is the effect that the developed world’s taste for the drug on the countries where it is produced. I am far from an expert on the subject and have never taken cocaine but when comparing it with alcohol, people should take into account the impact on the world around them at all stages, not just the end-user.
Personally I would have no problem with a ban on all substances (aside from prescribed medication) that led to people losing control of their faculties, including alcohol, cocaine and the Daily Mail. That would at least be logical, if completely unenforceable.
I do agree that Alistair Down is risking the label of a hypocrite, but as I haven’t read his article in full, I can’t comment further.
By the way, I’m no admirer of Fallon, neither do I admire those old stories of other racing people racing under the influence of various substances. For me the bottom line is awareness. If you are not fully aware of what you are doing, you are putting other people at risk.
So on a personal level, we can sympathise but when talking about society or a sport as a whole, there have to be rules that make it clear that certain behaviour is not permitted, in order to deter those who are similarly tempted. Just as we can sometimes sympathise with people who commit crimes in the heat of the moment, in certain circumstances, but they still need to be punished, for a number of reasons.
I can’t for the life of me imagine why someone who is presumably a multi-millionaire, would get involved in such relatively footling "extra-curricular" activities. That would have been the bedrock of my defence of Fallon if I had been his brief.
I know we human-beings have a propensity for barmy behaviour, but there must be something I’ve been missing here. That’s not rhetorical. I know the concerned people on this thread are likely to be both knowledgeable about the racing world and shrewd in their thinking.
Dear MickeyMo
My family has been damaged by members who are alcoholic.Husbands beating their wives,molesting their children,losing the family home to creditors.Most users of other drugs usually destroy themselves.I wish those in my family had been using hard drugs and not alcohol.They might have left the rest of us alone.
That is just my experience with substance abuse.Cocaine is not metabolically addictive.
I didn’t say it was – cocaine is neuropsychologically addictive.
There is more than one type of addiction.
Never said you did
I posted before you did.
I don’t think that Alistair having a problem with alcohol should disqualify him from criticising Fallon for having a problem with cocaine (and not doing his best to sort it out). It doesn’t make him a hypocrite at all. In fact, it makes him a better judge than those who’ve never had an addiction, i.e., look at all of the people on this thread who think they’re better qualified to talk about the dangers of alcohol because they’ve seen the devastating effects that it can have on alcoholics (which may include friends or family): on that basis, Alistair (who has been in rehab with many addicts) is perfectly right to talk about addiction.
I’m a terrible rider of a horse yet I don’t feel that I’m being hypocritical when I criticise a professional jockey for giving a horse a terrible ride!
I’m a regular(ish) user of both cocaine and alcohol (the former in small doses). Yes cocaine is addictive in the sense that you can potentially get addicted to it; but its not addictive in the sense that you have it once and then become a dribbling, pathetic addict. Personally I never have a problem with moderating my use of it. It only crosses my mind to take it when I’m out and trying to have a good time, i.e., not on a Wednesday night indoors while I’m browsing the Internet. It’s the same for many people.
What does saying something is ‘addictive’ mean? We’re all talking about addiction on a horse racing forum; and horse racing is associated with gambling, which is said to be addictive. But I doubt that any of the gamblers on here would consider themself an addict of gambling; because they are knowledgeable, selective, do lots of research into their bets and can resist having a bet. So should gambling be generalised as addictive when there are plenty of people who prove that it isn’t: because something’s addictiveness is subjective, dependent upon the personality of the person who uses it rather than the thing itself?
Both cocaine and alcohol are (roughly) equally damaging and I’ve never heard a convincing argument why one is legal and the other isn’t. It seems to be based on an arbitrary judgement that was made a long, long time ago.
The fact that Alistair Down has admitted to an alcohol problem brings this alcohol/cocaine comparison into sharper focus. I wonder whether if alcohol had only been discovered/popularised in the last two hundred years or so, it would not also be illegal, given the problems that it causes. Were it not for the fact that enforcing prohibition of such a long-established drug would be horrendously expensive and nigh-on impossible, I’m fairly sure that alcohol would have been treated in the same way.
But on the narrow question regarding Fallon, the fact is that cocaine is illegal, alcohol isn’t. It may not be entirely logical, but it is a fact, has been a fact for a very long time and is unlikely to change in the near future. So whilst the debate is an interesting one, it doesn’t alter the rights or wrongs of Fallon’s case. He would presumably be aware that cocaine is a Class A drug and unless it is suggested that he was taking it as some sort of a protest against the current drug laws, I’m not sure that Fallon should be treated more leniently because the drug laws are perceived in some quarters to be unbalanced.
And since cocaine is illegal, it arrives in Fallon’s pocket via a trail of criminal activity and the money with which he buys it contributes to human suffering all the way back along that trail, back to the villages where it was produced.
If Fallon isn’t punished severely, the risk is that having a drug problem becomes if not acceptable, then on the fringe of acceptability within the horse racing world and young jockeys, indeed young sportspeople have another negative impression added to their subconcious. There has to be a big fat deterrent to slap down any suggestion that turning to illegal drugs is in any way acceptable or just part of the package of being a talented sportsman under pressure.
And at the same time, we should retain the capacity to have sympathy with Fallon on a human level. Complicated business and an ethical minefield.
And a further question – are jockeys ever breathalysed before or after races?
Jockeys are indeed breathalysed. As reported in the Racing Post last month when three jockeys failed tests prior to racing at Newmarket:
The punishment for a first offence at a reading of 17-34 microgrammes [per 100 millilitres in breath] is a caution. For 35 microgrammes or more on a first offence, the punishment ranges from a 28-day ban to a 60-day ban, with an entry point of 40 days.
For context, the legal limit for driving is 35 microgrammes per 100 ml of breath.
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