- This topic has 742 replies, 131 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 4 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
I was working the bookmaker on the day as I did previously on a casual basis but never again. I was party to the conversations.
Ok mate, thanks for clarifying.
Mike
All three have enough tarnish already. Don’t want a visit from the heavies down sarf.
Maybe some of you will consider it irrepsonsible of me, but how many other punters, like me, aren’t in the least bit pleased to see page after page on the subject. Just tell us the bare bones, and then how it pans out: found guilty or no guilty. It’s been like a soap, but without the excitement!
Quotes –
"What racing needed was a case whereby some of the bad apples that do exist (again – no suggestion as to who these actually are) were rooted out and dealt with in a criminal court. "Why do think 13 jockeys have had their licences removed cormack?
Ah, so we can quite confidently make a suggestion as to the identities of those bad apples then. Is the issue that we require a criminal conviction? If so, why? Surely the ultimate deterrent for a jockey/trainer is the removal of their livelihood?
I agree with what you are saying but the problem there is the only way they can do that is by putting them in Jail and they failed to do that.
They ban a trainer his daughter takes over, they ban a Jockey he can e,g. still make a good living out of racing passing information to big punters. Once one of the boys always one of the boys. Especially Fallon who must know hundreds of people who are friends that won’t turn their backs on him. Even if found guilty they would still be there for him.
People who are involved in racing on a day to day basis like trainers and owners don’t veiw all this in the same way the racing public or like some of the people on here do.
Our friend who overheard a conversation and comes on here and repeats it then says he is saying no more cos he doesn’t want the heavies at his door…………to late mate they’re on there way.
Joking of course.He has the right to say what he overheard but if raing people got a sniff of who he was they wouldn’t share a can of coke with him.
If he could prove what he was saying he would have been a witness in court and could have possibly reversed tthe not guilty result. The problem is no one would back him up if he did go public. If they did they wouldn’t have a freind left in the racing world.
Unfortunately with racing people the Fallons of this world are hero’s to them….they pull of a coup and the racing fraternity say good on you well done despite the fact they are cheaters.
DRUGS: that’s different matter he should be shot in head if he is riding horses on coke…that to racing people is a big no no…..yet his punishment will be a lousy triple suspension.
He will probably get 18 months France, England and Ireland as it’s an ideal opportunity for the authorities here to get him despite it happeneing in France………and they will.
18 months could just be long enough to see Mr Fallon take his non horse loving interest elsewhere,,,,,,,hopefully
DRUGS: that’s different matter he should be shot in head if he is riding horses on coke…that to racing people is a big no no
18 months could just be long enough to see Mr Fallon take his non horse loving interest elsewhere,,,,,,,hopefully
Presumably then, you’d agree with me that the legion of stories concerning Biddlecombe and Nicholson et al allegedly riding whilst tanked up on the legal drug alcohol was anything but what many of their contemporaries ‘lucky enough to have seen them’ seem to insist was the ‘Corinthian spirit’ at its best from a long lost ‘golden age’ of derring-do.
Regarding Fallon: Agreed, I for one will shed no tears if his drug test is positive and he faces another hefty ban, as with any luck it will bring down the curtain on his riding career. A capable jockey admittedly, but as a character one racing is most certainly better off without – in my very humble opinion.
I really get tired of the pompous contributers who so artfully refer to Kieren as MR.Fallon. Who in the name of all that is good do they think they are? They sneer with sarcasm at a man they probably cheered when he won them money. Et tu Brute!It is as if he is now a monster who before was a hero.All he asked to do was be allowed to ride horses and for no good reason he was not allowed to do that in England for 2 years.Why? Maybe that drove him to addiction. I can excuse a man anything except hypocrisy and I have been amazed at the level of that virtue on this forum.
I really get tired of the pompous contributers who so artfully refer to Kieren as MR.Fallon. Who in the name of all that is good do they think they are? They sneer with sarcasm at a man they probably cheered when he won them money. Et tu Brute!It is as if he is now a monster who before was a hero.All he asked to do was be allowed to ride horses and for no good reason he was not allowed to do that in England for 2 years.Why? Maybe that drove him to addiction. I can excuse a man anything except hypocrisy and I have been amazed at the level of that virtue on this forum.
Does the word hypocrisy exist in the American vocabulary?
If you care to re-read your posting you are, in effect, doing exactly what you have accused others of doing. I would suggest your posting is more pompous than most of those criticising Fallon?
Are you saying people cannot criticise someone, even when the subject of the criticism is blatantly in the wrong?
Or are you advocating that it is perfectly acceptable to take illegal drugs just because things don’t start going ones way?
Its all very well saying thats its all a bit "risque" and is no doubt considered by some to be all a bit of a "craic" but we are well past the days when racing had the punters pound near enough to itself
The product is damaged… Badly.
Punters wont shrug their shoulders and come back tomorrow for more. They are likely to shrug their shoulders and bet on the golf or the stock market
The most laughable comment was from that poisoness dwarf Carson. "a great day for racing". Yes. In Carsons world racing is the exculsive preserve of jockeys trainers and owners
It was a rotten day for racing. A high profile convinction was essential if punters confidence is going to return.
Let’s not kid ourselves; the sport has been tarnished. The "no smoke without fire" brigade will remain cynical – in spite of all charges against Fallon and co. being dropped – whereas the majority of racing fans will say, in an almost dismissive fashion, hey, forget about it, let’s move on.
But a shadow has been cast over the credibility of the sport of kings and doubts will forever remain – and for good reason, I say. Wherever money is concerned, whether it be in business or in professional sport, there will always be an element of corruption. Such is human nature that people will always be swayed by the lure of the fast buck. Money talks, as they say; in horse racing, it roars.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
In amongst the bookmaker "specials", the tipping line adverts, the meaningless statistics, the last 3 runs, the trainer pap etc.., lies one of the most vindictive and hypocritical articles I have ever read. You’ve certainly outdone yourself this time Mr Down.
"A two-time coke abuser", "Fallon is a man who recreationally stuffs his salary up his nose or he has a serious drug problem." –
-Fallon’s first ban was for an amount <b>"so low, according to an expert witness, Dr Michael Lewis, "as to admit that the possibility that the test result arose solely as a consequence of environmental contact" – but the serious status of the offence means a ban is a no-option consequence, regardless of cause or circumstance."</b>
and
"<b>Over the course of his long riding career, Kieren Fallon has been tested by authorities all over the world and the results have always been negative. In this case, only trace levels were detected and these are considerably lower than generally accepted thresholds for positive results"
</b>
The current sample if reports are to be believed contain traces of pure cocaine. The way the the human body metabolises cocaine makes it impossible for it to exist in a pure state in urine. That makes the sample open to the possibility of contamination and in any event no results of the contents of the B sample have been returned as yet. But no Mr Down you have already tried and convicted him guilty till proven innocent the very charge you railed against in the very same article. You are a hypocrite."Pathetic Spectacle" are words you use in your article. Mr Down you looked a pathetic spectacle to me a few weeks ago on C4’s Morning Line, in my opinion under the influence of some substance, a dishevelled, barely coherent lump as your exercised your profession. I’ve never seen or heard of Kieren Fallon turn up for work in that state. You are a hypocrite.
"For all their fashionable status in certain sections of society, Class A drugs rightly do not play well with the public." – Another factual inaccuracy if your referring to Ireland. Unfortunately here cocaine use is fashionable in EVERY village, town and city in Ireland, its fashionable within EVERY section of society. You think people here link the emotion of the HEROIN horrors of the 90’s and the death of Veronica Guerin to how they feel about Kieren Fallon?! Mr. Down you are on a different planet.
Mr. Down, does being a wine addict make you a better class of addict than other addicts? Are you applying the English class system to the human condition of addiction?
Speaking of the human condition I would ask people who are so quick to condemn the man to consider the following.
Think about how you’d feel if your employer in your chosen profession had prevented you practising that profession for 18 months, had taken an action against you in the highest criminal court in the land for sending a few ambiguous text messages to a couple of people they also had a problem with or for "the crime" of sharing a taxi with but not speaking to somebody else they also had a problem with. To put it in some type of context the mobile phone rule carries a 500 quid fine for a first time offence.
And that’s the extent of it, this man has been put through this ordeal because of a few text messages and a taxi ride. On a human justice scale in a western society it beggars belief. Think about that before you’d have him "clear off" or as its been written on this forum "shot in the head"
Similar legal ordeals in other professions have killed people (British Airways Pilots). Is it any wonder he might as a human being with an addictive condition have felt the overwhelming need to escape from it for an hour or two. Fallon has spoken of not having slept properly for 3 years and of his "enormous personal pain". Can any of you know how you’d react in similar circumstances?
Has a six time champion in any other sport been treated before any verdict was delivered ‘like a terrorist" or made to feel "like a criminal". Well has there?
I didn’t hear all the whiter than white self appointed moral guardians of horseracing call for the heads of Chris Antley, Terry Biddlecombe, Bobby Beasley, Steve Cauthen, Walter Swinburn, Timmy Murphy, John Murtagh, Keith Dalgleish, Joe Fanning, Dean Gallagher, Andrash Starke, Andrew Findlay, Jerry Bailey, Pat Day, Pat Valenzuela, Frankie Dettori, when they had problems with addiction, being over the limit at work or substance abuse.
Fallon’s not perfect, he’s far from it, but show me someone who is. His move back to a more settled lifestyle in Tipp, his counselling and admittance that he has addiction problems at least show he’s trying to be a better man. This cocaine issue has only reared its ugly head at a time of incredible and totally unjustified strain for the man, and hopefully please God he’ll get the continued help and support of the people who have admirably stood by him.
One thing is for certain, he’ll always be welcome on an Irish racecourse, and be a hero to many followers of the sport everywhere.
And finally Mr Down, I wish you well with your addiction, you’ll probably need it.
Strong stuff CR.
I was surprised to read the Down article. It was honest but I feel, given the well publicised difficulties Alastair Down has himself recently been struggling with, ill-advised. It certainly came across as a touch hypocritical and holier-than-thou. A bit like his infamous Grand National article from a few years back, it reads a bit like a knee-jerk, unconsidered reaction.
I wish both he and Mr. Fallon well through the tough battles both undoubtedly face ahead. We should support them both.
So CR, just to be clear, are you condoning drug abuse?
I’ve been through turmoil in my life. I’ve been through a very complicated divorce. I’ve been re-possessed, I’ve had to declare myself bankrupt, and worst still, I’ve had to go to court just to see the most precious people in my life – my kids. Do you know what that feels like? And guess what, I didn’t have a pot to piss in, unlike the millionaire that is Mr Fallon.
Did I revert to drugs? No. Did I seek professional help? Yes.
I have a lot of sympathy for Fallon, I admire him as a jockey. But no matter what anyone goes through in their life, escaping through drugs is not the answer, in fact it’s the lowest of the low. Why not sup 8 cans of Grolsch like myself and sleep it off in the comfort of your own bedroom?
I will pose this simple question. Which is worse? Loss of your job and reputation, though still having millions in the bank to fall back on OR the prospect of never seeing your kids again?
Sometimes you have to put things into perspective. I love Kieren Fallon as a jockey and for what he has brought to the sport – but if he is confirmed as a cocaine user, then all my respect for him has gone, regardless of the situation he was in.
Mike
Mikky – not sure I agree with you at all regarding the ‘difference’ between cocaine and alcohol.
Both are harmful, both are widely used recreationally, and it just so happens that one is deemed ‘legal’ and one ‘illegal’.
Is there really any difference between using alcohol to numb emotional pain or snorting cocaine to achieve the same? I’m not sure your selection of 8 cans of Grolsch as your weapon of choice is actually something to be ‘proud’ of, or makes you any better (or worse) than those who choose some other form of drug-assisted escape.
Personally, I cannot condone or condemn either in sweeping general terms – people have their reasons and most of us will need some form of help or support at some point along the paths of our lives…
NV,
You hit the nail on the head. Alcohol is LEGAL, cocaine ISN’T. Do I need to say anything else? OK I will.
Drinking 8 cans of Grolsch in the comfort of your own home is not ILLEGAL. Alcohol, at a dangerous level, doesn’t stay in your system for longer than 24 hours, hence why you can’t drink n drive immediately, but you can drink, then drive 24 hours later once you have slept it off.
Cocaine, on the other hand, is reported to stay in your system for weeks, and therefore the abuser of this ILLEGAL drug is always in danger of not being focussed for many weeks after the abuse. If Mr Fallon is found guilty of taking drugs, as he has done previously, then riding a horse, a few days after his alledged abuse, is not something I would condone.
It certainly isn’t something I would call him ‘welcome’ and a ‘hero’ for!
Besides, you’re missing the point I think. Just because Fallon has had a hard time, does this mean he had to revert to drugs? This is the main question. I had a hard time, and I didn’t revert to drugs. What would yo have done given Fallon’s or my situation – drugs or drink?
Mike
With reference to this thread title, how is a character assassination of Alistair Down a defence of Kieren Fallon?
Just to add,
I am an anti-drugs campaigner and I always will be. And no, I haven’t drank 8 cans of Grolsch this evening…..
NV, just to go back to your point above, which I failed to answer as I would have liked. You say what is the difference between alcohol and drugs when it comes to nubming emotional pain.
Like I say, alcohol is legal and doesn’t stay in the system that long. And given the example I gave (drinking 8 cans in your own bedroom), it doesn’t do anybody any harm. Drugs on the other hand, are illegal, stay in the system far longer than alcohol, and given that the drug user is in contact with other living things, he/she can affect other people or animals.
Like I said above, do I need to say anymore?
Mike
… and just to labour my point even more (I promise I am going to bed now), if there isn’t any difference between numbing your pain with alcohol or cocaine, then why didn’t Mr Fallon chose alcohol……… he wouldn’t be in the situation he is in if he had
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.